Honestly, on the track they would be pretty similar because you're using the work of the engine to achieve acceleration.

Now, on the street where you're likely to be in the wrong gear, the higher tq would make a world of difference.

Keep in mind though, if the hp is equal the engine would be moving the same amount of air and fuel barring slight variations such as compression and frictional losses. As for your busa analogy, the tq and length of the busa would get it off the line faster.

Keep in mind with the rolling start that advantage is taken away from the buell.

The problem with all engines is piston velocity and the cost to build them to withstand those stresses.


Talk more later. Typing on a blackberry sucks..

Okay but my research shows the Buell getting worse 1/4 mile times than the 600s...:idk:

Yes, those are perfect passes with pro riders. They can make advantage of the hp by launching hard.
You get on either bike and I can almost promIse you would run the better time on the buell. The tq allows for an easier launch seeing as you don't have to dump the clutch at 9000 rpm.

100% honest here. I bet I can launch my high tq low hp xb just as good if not better than your gixxer. Then you'd blow by me as I'm shifting second at 50mph.

Tq is great. But useless without revs.

Hp is a measurement of work. 160hp is more work than 130hp. But in the case of accelerating a mass, your acceleration rate is hp/weight. More hp and you'll accelerate faster, less weight and equal hp you'll accelerate faster. Trap speed is a fairly good measure of power/weight ratio, yet et can be all over the place. I'm pretty sure the Bus will trap faster than the others.

A 1000 I4 SS makes more hp than a 600 I4 SS because it makes more torque, and the 600 doesn't make enough torque at higher rpm's to match it. But if you look at say my Aprilia, it makes more torque than a 600SS, but not as much as a modern Liter I4. My bikes dyno's at ~110hp, very close to what a 600SS makes, even though it does make more torque.

The track tends to make a difference also. At Calabogie, for the Parts Canada season opener, we had once kid in the top 10 who was running his 600 in Superbike. I guess when you're looking at steel guardrails all the way around the circuit, it tends to moderate your use of the throttle hand.

Peak hp is the rpm of most breathing, peak torque is the rpm of best breathing. If you think of a single cycle at tq pk, the engine breathes in the most air. That number can be used as sort of a measure of how efficient an engine is at breathing. As soon as you go past the tk pk, the engine doesn't inhale as much air/cycle as it did at peak. But you you get more cycles. As long as the breathing doesn't drop off faster than rpm goes up, even though it's breathing less air, it does more work.

This use to be a real problem, But at least for the length of a race they've solved it. Now it's closing the valves(well they've solved that too, now it's engine life).

Hmmm okay I'm getting what you're saying. An R6 makes as much torque as my bike at 17,000 rpm but it will never make as much hp. That still doesn't explain why Buell can't take 1125 cc and make a bike worthy of the Superbike class while Ducati can with 1200cc (in fact the big complaint is that the Duc makes too much power) .:idk: Heck, Ducati campaigned a 1000cc V-Twin against same cc I4 for a while and did okay....kinda.

The tq pk of my bike is ~6,500, I'd guess 8 or 9,000 on your bike, and about 14,000 on the R6.

The rotax in the Buell wasn't designed for competition, simple as that. It doesn't have the radical engine geometry necessary for maximum power. And it would always have a disadvantage because of the weight of it's larger valves for a metal valve spring.

Ducati was allow to replace the bottom end with Ti Rods and Cranks, so that they could run to 14,000 with a liter twin, the desmo-valve train allowed that.

To get the extra displacement they got in the FIM, they agreed to use stock cranks and rods. And gave up some of the higher rpm they use to run (or figured out a way to get similar rpm out of stock pieces and last a race).

(Insert tigger's shitty response about Buell here)

You are the anti-American.

If you were a real American, you would demand that an American sportbike step up and compete on a level playing field instead of making excuses and calling anyone who doesn't support the racing effort anti-American. ;)

Aw snap!:rockwoot:

damn skippy

Hahahahahaha. They don't have to race a lap to earn my business. I don't give a shit who they compete against. I'm still gonna support the Americans.

Who makes that nice camera you own?

Not America and not concerned.

Or his TV, stereo, car, watch, etc, etc, etc.... I've had that argument many times with my soon to be ex-friends when I switched from Harley to Yamaha. I can't keep buying "American" (which Harley isn't btw) if they are going to be more expensive and give less reliability and performance. :sorry: I understand that they are much better these days (mostly because they gave up on a lot of their inferior American suppliers) but...:idk:

Harley is American (regardless of where the parts come from), and I didn't mind paying a bit more for mine because the resale will preserve most of any extra paid.

And it's guys like you that have kept them in business regardless of what kind of shit bikes they've produced... Again I understand that their quality has improved and sure when they promise to buy back a bike for what you paid for it, you can't go wrong... Unfortunately, I don't buy a motorcycle as an investment, I want to ride. I want to get up in the morning and put the key in and KNOW that it's going to start. I want to have the best performance in that class WITHOUT having to spend another $5-10,000 on transmission/engine upgrades. I didn't want to wait two years for a bike that was designed 10 years ago using 50 year old technology. Plus pay 1 1/2 as much money... To each their own but to accuse me of being "un-American" because I won't support a company that sells crap (imho) just because they're "assembled" in this country is bullshit!:pat:

I didn't call you un-american. They did buy a bike back for what I paid for it. And I didn't buy it as an investment, I bought it to ride, But I also know that when I do decide to sell it it will have been cheap to own. Not cheap to buy, cheap to own.
Mine runs fine, only time it didn't start I flooded it. And I put slip-on and a carb on it. Runs fine, probably making 70-75 hp, 80-90 tq. The stock carb and intake looks to be really small for the engines size.

I didn't mean to imply that you called me un-American but you broke into the last micro-debate sparked by Marko's insistence that I am not patriotic because I don't support Buell/HD in AMA racing. Once again I understand that HD has improved since I last owned one (mid 70s to early 80s models) but in many ways things have stayed the same. That many people still buy them because they are "American", for an investment or to partake in a specific lifestyle and not because they have the best value/quality. I am certain that if I could get another '88 V-Max, it would surpass a brand new 2009 HD Sportster 1200 in every meaningful category.

probably beat the vrod too.

I still think that as far as value goes, they are cheap to own.

Just a question, you didn't buy into the motorcyclist lifestyle? You ride solely to feel the wind in your face? Because, if you didn't buy into a lifestyle, why are you on THE KING liter bike? Especially when you say you don't ride hard anymore..

You guys are hilarious. Who fucking cares what I buy and who makes it. Not me. I bought the Buell because it's an awesome street bike...and is marketed as such. It's what I like. I dont give a fuck if you like or not and I dont care what the race results are for Buell or any other company.

I will certainly root for them, not because I ride one, but because of Erik Buell. He's a good guy, a Pennsylvanian too, and he's put in a ton of hard work and dedication to get where he is today. I can get behind a guy like him.

I didn't buy my bike soley because it's made in America, and I didn't buy anything else I own because it's made here or there.

Some of you fuckers, ass rapers like Tigger especially, will just beat up on Buell and talk shit on them for any reason. If they went out tomorrow and raced in WSBK and won there would be a barage of shit about them.

"The only reason they won in WSBK is because they were running in ama. Let them build an I4 and compete and then I'll respect them.."

Sound like what you were imagining?

These very same people who talk shit about our bikes, couldn't ride them to 1/2 their potential to begin with. And thus, are guilty of what they accuse harley riders of. Buying an image. Because obviously if you're not riding the best and biggest bike to the limits that Rossi would, then you're a poser...

I don't hate on Buell. I actually think they are a decent bike. I just don't like the idea of them getting a huge displacement advantage oin racing. Would I ride a Buell? Certainly. Would buy a Buell? Maybe. $ for $ Buell is probably one of the best bike manufaturer out there. Like I said I have nothing against Buell. It's DMG/AMA who I hate. But I still watch their races.

I bought the R1 because that's what I wanted and it is my money. The salesman that I bought it from was an American...so was the owner and so is the mechanic that works on it...well IF I ever need work on it...so far I don't. :lol:

I like Buell BUT yes I think it's BS that they are racing against 600's but hey maybe that's just me. :idk: I posted before that it mainly started when I attended a bikenight recently and some fvcktards riding Buells started running their mouth to a friend and to my wife that both ride R6's because Buell had won a dayum race. I quickly told them yep...they beat a fvckin 600...whoopdy fvckin' doooo !!!! I asked "wonder why they don't/can't do that to a liter bike" ?

IF Buell gets their chit together and starts competing in the superbike class and starts winning...more power to them...Ducati does it and I'm not here bashing them right ?

I'd rather Buell win than Ducati...yep it's American and so am I.

Oh yeah...I own a Vette...Jeep...and Dodge vehicle and also own an American built boat with a Chevy 350 block BUT when it comes to sportbikes...for my money...it's a Japanese inline 4...but again...maybe that's just me.

Erik Buell does seem like a decent guy...more power to him but for the Buell owners like I ran into at bikenight...stfu about your 1125 Buell beating a 600...step up and start beating liter bikes and you have some room to talk. :lol

What's so special about displacement? It seems that you're arguing that displacement is the be all of a bike, how about how much power it has vs how much it weighs?

That's all that matter to acceleration, hp and weight. Displacement is nowhere to be found in the equation of acceleration.

So if the buell had the same power to weight and beat a 600, well it did go faster, didn't it?

There is no replacement for displacement. Have you ever heard that saying?
So you's be ok with someone running a 700lb 260Hp V6 in the same class? Those numbers are just doubling the current limits for a 600 cc bike.

Actually I think it's quite ironic you say that.

And yes, I had a 69 Dodge Coronet RT with a 440 6-pack with headers, electronic ignition, a big cam, 3.91 gears and 10.5" M&H StreetMasters DOT approved 'slicks'.


Yes

I started riding when I was young because it was a natural progression from bikes for me. A motorcycle was cheap, economical transportation for a poor halfbreed trying to make his way alone in the world at 16 (both of my parents were dead). I got an old MX250 off a guy for mowing his lawn and fixed it up myself to get it running (man it was a pos). Later when I was in the military, I bought a used Harley (pos) then a new 883 (pos) and then a 1200 (also a pos!). I got an Uncle's Yamaha and it was over for HD in my life! I've been riding liter+ bikes since the early 80s so I guess that's what I'm used to... to be honest, I don't even think about it. I suppose that I could live with a smaller bike but in all honesty, I always end up buying the liter, partially because, well a 600 costs 10+k and a 1000 costs about 11k so....:lol: In fact, I seriously thought about the 750 but I actually got my bike for over $1,000 less. :lol: I never bought into a "lifestyle" though... Oh and I've had this bike for 4 years, my slowing down was partially brought on by throat cancer year before last so the two things aren't necessarily connected.

Nice car


That makes about as much sense as putting a 150lbs fighter in the ring that can bench press 300 lbs with a 300lbs fighter that can bench 600lbs. Same logic, the strength to weight ratio is the same.

You obviously aren't listening, so let me repeat my main points for you:

1. I don't hate Buells. I think they make great STREETbikes, and I'm particularly fond of the XB12S.

2. I have a lot of respect for Erik and what he's trying to do, but he's doing it wrong wrt racing.

3. I've said it like nine times in this thread already, but here it is again: the Buell should be in Superbike. Any Buell owner bragging about the 1125 being competitive in Supersport is the equivalent of Tigger bragging that he's doing pretty well in a 5th grade basketball league.

I will respect the Buell "racing" effort when they are competitive in Superbike. Until then, they are an insult to the sport, and both Buell and DMG should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

When the motorcycles start punching each other in the face, then you might be onto something.

E for effort.. No more, no less.

Well if boxing and racing were the same, I'd see you point.

Huh? I don't have anything "personal" against Buell. In fact, I wanted one really bad when they first came out, at least until I rode one...:panic: I'm still waiting for them to produce a bike that is comparable to what I ride now. When they do that, I will be proud to own an "American" bike again!:pat:

BTW as far as the "American" thing goes, you're the one that brought it up. I don't care if Buell was made in Timbuktu, it's still bullshit to allow them to race that bike in that class imho. That's the point of this entire thread, not where they are made. You, sir, are the one that made this into an "American pride" issue not me! I have served this country, what have you done for her besides buy a bike that was assembled here?

Damn, you were 1 minute faster....

My gf always says the same thing...

If he was as big as your averge 5th grader, No problem....

Ok homos.. I haven't even read it yet. Just saw a link...

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/03june09_das_mdstyle.htm

Compares the 1125 to the 600s..

These guys were bragging that Buell was beating the Japanese inline four's at their on game and that's BS...the game/rules are being changed to accomodate the horsepower deprived Buells...they aren't beating anyone at "their own game" imho.

Well then let's just add weight to all 600's and take some more weight off of the Buells and add some weight to the literbikes and the Ducati 1098/1198's and throw them all in the same class...no need for seperate classes I guess if it's just all about power to weight ?

Yeah I know...that's rediculas...same as I feel about the Buells being in a class with 600's. Oh well we'll see what the future holds...maybe Buell will get competitive in the big boys class like Ducati and we won't be having this debate.

Thanks homo...looks interesting and I'll read it here in a few when I get the chance. :dt:

Well I'm not a fucking homo but I did read the article and they've concluded that the Buell doesn't have any real advantage so it's a fair series... Even I have to admit that the recent results tend to be consistent with this pov. Of course it then shows that Buell needs twice as many cc's be competitive. So if Buell is ever to compete in Superbike, it will have to be on a 2000cc bike...:lol: I'm just kidding and I have to admit that this is a lose/lose situation for Buell... If they win, they had an unfair advantage, if they lose, they suck for getting beat by 600s...

Dude, you don't know me or what I've done. Jackass.

That's why that was a question.

Ducati was doing it with 750s.

They're still doing it with 850s...:lol:

:lol:

I must apologize to all Buell 1125R's and their owners. I did not realilze that when you walk into a dealership and displayed on both sides of the bike in large print "1125R" which would make the average person think wow...big bike that races with the big dogs... doesn't really mean this at all.

Come to find out that when you buy one you get one of these in the dealer packet and when you show up at a bikenight you must display this and are allowed to park in the Handicapped spaces ? Heard it on the net...must be true. :whistle:

Standard issue with Buell 1125R ? :nee:

http://images-cdn01.associatedconten...300_294083.jpg

:lmao: repped

:lol: Right, Your R1 and Ben's are the same!

On the otherhand The bike Ducati races sells for about $40,000, plus whatever they spend to get it ready for Haga.

I was joking but at least it is closer...it does have a chain and it races in the big boys class. :lol: How's the 1125 Buell doing in WSBK ? :whatwhat:

You know what? WHO CARES?!? Suuki is leading that class as well by 50+ points!!! Who knows maybe DMG will allow Buell to field a 1500cc bike next year.... Hahahahaha! Not to mention that Mat is ahead by well over 100 points in super bike!

I wonder in DMG will let a Hyabusa run in the super sport class? :lol

Who knows what will happen? They're obviously making this shit up as they go!:lol:

Just add a bunch of weight to it and let it run...it may be the "Official Bike" before too long anyways. :lol

Race 1


4 out of the top 10 are Buell.


Race 2

3 out of the top 10 are Buell.


:pat::nana2::nana:

Correct...against 600's but 3 600's were ahead of the Buell in one race and 4 600's were ahead of it in the other race.

No one has denied they are doing well against smaller bikes.

It's all good...the ones that think it's great still do and the ones that think it's complete BS still do. :lol

We've accomplished absolutely NOTHING... another typical thread here on TWFix!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Agreed 100 % :lol:

Well that's your fault, as you fail to listen to reason :lol:

:lol: Just for the record...I actually LIKE the Buell 1125R although I've never ridden one...but I will.

I like the concept and have been stating for years that Buell wouldn't ever get anywhere with the "sport bike community" until they adapted another engine other than Harley. Now if they would just please hire a different designer....:sorry: They are getting better and I'm getting older so eventually we'll cross paths.:lol:

:?:

How about maybe they didn't want a race engine, and wanted a streetbike engine?

Word on the street is that Buell is one of the better handling bikes on the road. I'd have to imagine racing was on their minds when designing the bike chassis. Why make a bike so track capable if it was never meant to be tracked? And if that's the case why throw an air cooled HD motor in it? Seems like they had an engine group and a chassis group and neither of them met to discuss bike capabilities.

No, it was designed as a streetbike, which is why it has a belt drive, and while the older ones have an air-cooled engine, the 1125 has a water cooled Rotax for an engine.

Yeah but they are no more powerful than a 599cc I-4 :lol:

My insurance company bases it's rates strictly on engine size. Why in the world would I pay higher insurance premiums than I would on an R1 but only benefit from the power of an R6? :?:

I know Buell doesn't give 2 shits about what insurance companies base their premiums upon, but I'd have to imagine that it would affect their overall sales. Which is why If I was Buell Id figure out how to make a 1125R more competitive with a liter bike instead of a 600. 600 riders might have been their intended market, I don't know but you know as well as I do, Americans are obsessed with size. If your going to spend the money on a bike with 1125cc's you should get liter bike performance out of it. Just my thoughts on it.

Again I have nothing against Buell personally. Everything I've heard they are great bikes. As a matter of fact I've never heard a Buell owner complain about them.

i rode the 1125 and the 1125 cr, both were capable bikes, but my rc just felt faster, even if it was down on hp it still felt like a faster, quicker bike

Dude, un-ruffle your feathers, JESUS! I'm talking about the way it looks. Am I now not allowed to have my own view about what is aesthetically pleasing? I don't like the looks at all. It is just my opinion but since it will be MY fucking money buying my next bike, you'll excuse me if I weigh my opinion a bit more heavily than yours.

Not only that but his lame ass excuses for Buell are getting on my nerves! Erik Buell came from racing AND stated at the beginning that he was designing a race-type bike. He somehow got entangled with HD and the PR guys started this "designed for the street" type ad speak. Erik Buell always dreamed of going racing from what I've always read.

Very good points but you very rarely hear any "boutique bike" owner complain about their machine. I don't know what some of you are talking about but I rode several of the first generation Buells and I'm here to tell you that they were not good. They were using the old HD 1200 motor at the time and the vibration was horrid. They had oil issues, electronic issues, parts literally falling off. Yet to the Buell faithful, they were wonderful machines. The same can be said about Triumphs, Big Dogs, etc. Quite frankly, ownership of a lot of these brands is an emotional decision and facts, figures or even reality itself will not deter the faithful.

Besides, they were hyping the shit out of this new bike before it was released as "competition for the big four" and now that it's here and we expect "competitiveness", all I'm hearing are excuses. This reminds me of when the BMW "Hypersport" came out as a "Hayabusa Killer" only to fall far short of any hope of beating the 'Busa performance wise. Of course afterward it was designed as a "sport tourer" and was never meant to compete against the ZX-14 or 'Busa ...:lol:

Nope, it has belt drive because supposedly, according to Buell, belt drive is better. Gas in the frame is better. Oil in the swing arm is better. Perimeter brakes are better. Carrying the muffler under the engine is better. When the Buell was introduced, Erik proclaimed that he had a better motorcycle design. The ads and the accolades were endless. Well, I say prove it! Fuck, if they aren't trying to sell it as a sport/race bike then why race it in the first place? When it wins races it's a race bike, when it loses then it's a street bike.:lol:

So he should make a Jap I4 clone? That's where BMW is going, after all.

Why stop there, go ahead up to an 8cyl so it sounds like a chevy with flowmasters on it.:boobs:

Well it looks like Buell races in Superbike, I don't know if you can actually call it racing, maybe more like backmarking. They need to give them 1000 more cc's. In other news, Mladin got smoked by the Duc. Apparently it was going more than 10 mph faster in the straights. Sounds like Moto GP. He still almost won the damn thing though.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jun/e/n090607g.htm

Aw come on, Pegram won by like .3 of a second or something... I don't call that a smoking... besides Pegram is on a WSBK spec 1200cc bike...:lol:

Oh I don't think that but if you're going to come out of the box saying that you have a better way of doing things.... again prove it!

I would have preferred if they had gone with a triple, to give at least a nod to some of their older machines, but the fact that they have developed an inline four tends to support the notion that there is an optimal configuration for a sportbike.

It would be nice if Buell did better but until Eric and company get away from cruiser-spawned engine concepts, they simply won't be able to compete on an equal footing. Twins are viable, especially on tighter tracks, but not if they carry enough excess mass to build a second engine.

Do you guys know why the old Buells used Harley based engines? Probably not, and it's not because Erik thought they were the best engines ever. They are good engines, good for the street, but thats not why he used them to begin with.

Because you can get them anywhere?

Nope.

Dude, it's great you don't like it, I'm not asking you to like it.

I'm trying to explain that a power to weight based class can allow them to compete fairly.

What the fuck does a WSBK spec bike have to do with anything? It's racing in Superbike.

Do you realize that the AMA is going to adopt FIM WSBK rules?

Maybe you're pissed the yamaha is now competing with the suzuki?

And again, all of the sanctioning bodies in racing recognize that a twin can not make the same hp as a I4 of the samesize.

Lastly, I like how twins run, if you want buy an I4, I don't care, but don't whine that everybike made isn't an I4, not everyone wants one.

Belt drive is better on the street, putting weight under the bike is better than hanging it off the back, gas in the frame, and oil in the swing arm are pretty good ideas as well.

You're the one who's whine about it competing in a class of bike that have about the same hp.

FYI, Tigger, the 1125 doesn't use the swingarm as an oil tank.

The front end of the 1125 looks like someone sat on it and squashed the headlights. And then there's the ugly side scoops.

Well Eric Buell was a former Harley Davidson engineer so that may have something to do with Buell using Harley engines. This and the fact that Buell and HD entered into an agreement/partnership with HD having right at half of the controlling ownership.

Actually, I thought that it was because all the other companies had laughed in his face and I don't mean this in a bad way. I'm pretty sure that he approached other companies with his ideas.

Oh no you don't! I said that I don't like the way it looks and you jumped down my throat...:lol:

Besides, I'm ready to concede that it's "fair" considering the results...:lol:

Worked for them. Built and designed them. Raced them. Could get a shit-load of them....

If I did I apologize, as I don't care what it looks like, nor whether you like it or not.

As an engineer, if he decided to start his own company, he might have to prove his ideas and designs weren't made using company resources. That entitles HD to ownership of his designs. So he may not have had a choice, but to give HD choice of if they wanted to use those designs.

:lol: Dayum !!

That's a possibility and makes good sense.

I was joking with Trip about the Ducati being a WSBK bike/1200 cc... you didn't get it?:lol:

Cool, now maybe they'll start using Pirelli tires as well. :lol: Either that or Buells will be racing in WSS...:lol:

Naw, I welcome competition! The races were getting boring with Suzuki winning all of them, for the past DECADE btw. As a race fan, I enjoy tight racing but Hayes even admitted that Mat had a bad race or two. Subsequent races have proven that Mat and the GSXR1000 are the bike to beat... I think that BB was over 20 secs back. Not my idea of "competitive".

Yay, all of the sanctioning bodies have realized that V-Twins suck!!!:lol::lol::lol: j/k The same was said about I4s, 2-strokes, then 4 strokes, etc. The teams/ factories believed that they had a "better way" and worked hard to make their type of machine stronger. Finally, after years of hard work and innovation, they were able to compete. If you have an overweight son that can't make the high school football team. You don't force the jr high school team to let him play. Then brag about "all the ass he is kicking!":lol: You train him. You put him on a diet. You fix whatever it is about him that is causing him to be non-competitive. At one time I4 engines struggled against twins. Now my bike producing as much torque and way more hp than any same sized twin. The engineers found a way to produce torque lower in the rev range, so now my bike pulls off idle.:rockwoot:

A V-twin is possibly the best street bike engine EVER produced. Okay fine but why race them then? You consistently say that "the Buell is a street bike", why insist on racing it?:idk: It's like bringing a mule to the Kentucky Derby and expecting the thoroughbred horses to carry two riders each to "make it fair" because "a mule isn't a race horse".:lol:

When did I "whine"? I don't care about what type of bikes other guys ride.:lol: BTW all of the Japanese manufacturers used to produce a V-twin sport bike but now they don't...hmmm. I wonder why?:lol: You know, I think that I'm looking at this the wrong way. This racing series is proving exactly what I and many others believe. That the I4 is the best engine configuration period! Think about it, the v-twin guys had to bring an almost double cc bike to the party and they are still getting their asses handed to them.:lol::lol::lol:

Yea I know, I was talking about the "innovations" that Erik brought to the motorcycle scene.

I'm just going to reply from now on so you don't get the last word.

:lmao::lmao:

I understand that they say that chain drive is easier to make gear changes with... which I don't get considering that I don't see why it's any harder to change pulleys than sprockets?:idk: Why not race the belt drive if it's so great?

I hear what you are saying about the exhaust weight, etc. That's not new. I have no idea why they don't all do it.:idk:

As far as oil in the swing arm and gas in the frame, well he's already given up on one...:lol:

Okay, they do not have the same hp stock. Whether or not the 600 teams can come up with a way to produce that much hp/tq and keep their bikes in one piece will be a testament to THEIR ingenuity and hard work, not a validation of the "fairness" of the rules in the first place. Quite frankly, all this little exercise is going to accomplish is to spotlight how inferior the Buell is when it gets beaten by a bunch of 600s.:lol: What's Erik going to do? Have a press conference at the end of the season and say," Well my bike was never intended to be a race bike"...

Thankyou! I may have been unclear when I said that, "they need a new designer". Perhaps, you took it to mean an "engine" designer. Although....:lol: Hey, there you go. Didn't HD make a play for Aprillia or MV or something? I wonder if it would help if they threw a Ducati motor in that chassis? Seriously, is it still a case of the engine holding them back? Hmmm...:idk:

Fixed.

More low-end than an I-4, along with cooler sound.

Also, less vibration than a twin under full throttle, and doesn't feel like it's going to stall out or break its connecting rods if you lug it.

Because it isn't. I'm quite sure it weighs more than a good 520 chain, and sucks up more power.