Brock Lesnar Vs. The Undertaker

[defector]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Looks like Carwin won't be fighting anyone for a while...he just pulled out of the Nelson fight due to back injury. Now they're talking Cro Cop Vs. Nelson possibly... WTF?

Ugh. Suddenly losing interest in the division again.

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by Triple

Sorry dude, but calling Fedor's recent opponents irrelevant is pretty ignorant.

Tim Sylvia (the longest reigning UFC heavyweight champ) beat the shit out of Nogueira for two rounds before being submitted in the third, and was still ranked 3 or 4 when he fought Fedor. He stood in front of an ex-Olympic boxer and got knocked out, but is currently on a three-fight winning streak.

Andrei Arlovski left the UFC on a three-fight winning streak and had won five straight before facing Fedor. He was ranked number TWO at the time. He knocked out Roy Nelson, something UFC title contender Junior dos Santos couldn't do.

Brett Rogers is the semi-can in this line-up, but he was ranked for his destruction of Arlovski.

Fabricio Werdum is probably the best heavyweight BJJ practitioner in the world. His only semi-recent loss is to a current title contender, and I believe an in-shape Werdum would win that rematch. He will probably lose to Fedor when they meet again, but he'll remain a force in any organization in which he competes.

In top form, any one of these guys could cause problems for any of the UFC's top heavies. It's not Fedor's fault that fighters lose their mojo after he pounds them out.

I wouldn't expect Fedor to breeze through every heavyweight in the UFC, but I would consider him the betting favorite in every match, and for good reason.

Look, I'm not saying the guy's not a good fighter... I'm just saying is not the god of MMA like everyone wants to believe. I think the statement in bold says it all... he catches guys on the way out.

The only other thing I want to comment on in your post is your analysis of Sylvia. Three fight win streak... against WHO?

Originally Posted by defector

It's been a while since I've been interested in the HW division. I honestly think Dos Santos can beat Velasquez. Brendan Shaub looks to have a pretty good future, too. I would like to see him go against Carwin.
Lesnar has been exposed as the primitive fighter he is - if he gets with a good camp (outside of Minnesota) and gets some different training, he could truly be a nightmare for anybody. I just don't think he is willing to yet.

Not sure Dos Santos can beat Velasquez, but either way... it's certainly going to be one of the matches I look forward to the most in 2011.

I like Shaub... I also like some of the other new blood... like Mitrione. That guy's fighting style is soooooo odd and interesting to watch.

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Looks like Carwin won't be fighting anyone for a while...he just pulled out of the Nelson fight due to back injury. Now they're talking Cro Cop Vs. Nelson possibly... WTF?

That would SUCK. Carwin probably would have annihilated Nelson anyway, but I'd rather see Mir/Nelson any day...

Originally Posted by defector

Ugh. Suddenly losing interest in the division again.

It's easy to lose interest in the heavyweights, which is funny because given their size they have the potential to be the most exciting... The UFC has a BIG problem in that division... they are simply running out of guys that can challenge eachother without constant rematches... Dana White needs new blood in those ranks... Overeem is a target as well as he should be, and another TUF heavyweight show should definitely be in the works...

[z06boy]

I'm not going to quote everyone and give specific opinions and all since I'm at the office and keep getting interruped...imagine that but just wanted to say...some very good opinions and valid points being brought up here and I am enjoying the read.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by z06boy

I'm not going to quote everyone and give specific opinions and all since I'm at the office and keep getting interruped...imagine that but just wanted to say...some very good opinions and valid points being brought up here and I am enjoying the read.

Yup, agreed. Some goddamn MMA scientists residing in this forum.

For the record, I won $20 on the Lesnar fight. I figured Velasquez would rip Lesnar to shreds, but I didn't expect it to go down until Lesnar got winded. Velasquez has probably had harder sparring sessions than that fight. I'm a big Lesnar fan, but he doesn't have the speed for a guy like Cain.

[z06boy]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Yup, agreed. Some goddamn MMA scientists residing in this forum.

For the record, I won $20 on the Lesnar fight. I figured Velasquez would rip Lesnar to shreds, but I didn't expect it to go down until Lesnar got winded. Velasquez has probably had harder sparring sessions than that fight. I'm a big Lesnar fan, but he doesn't have the speed for a guy like Cain.

scientists !!

Yeah I admit I didn't really think Cain would win mainly because I thought Carwin was going to beat him and he didn't.

I've missed two in a row now.

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Yup, agreed. Some goddamn MMA scientists residing in this forum.

For the record, I won $20 on the Lesnar fight. I figured Velasquez would rip Lesnar to shreds, but I didn't expect it to go down until Lesnar got winded. Velasquez has probably had harder sparring sessions than that fight. I'm a big Lesnar fan, but he doesn't have the speed for a guy like Cain.

I don't think it's a lack of speed... Lesnar's fucking quick... I think it's a lack of experience and good coaching... If I were coaching Lesnar I'd focus on, in order:

1) cardio - Lesnar's a beast and has taken it the distance before, but especially with the big guys you gotta focus on cardio to ensure someone cannot outgrind you.

2) standup defense - fuck working on how to hit someone, work on NOT getting hit which is certainly a weakness on Lesnar's part.

3) jiu jitsu - Lesnar's wrestling pedigree should lend itself well to BJJ, though you see him trying to stand and strike... fuck that. Add BJJ to his strong wrestling background and freakish strength, and you have one scary, scary dude.

4) wrestling - Keep his skill sharp and get some world class wrestling partners in there. Sure, it's more fun to watch someone beat the shit out of another guy, but Lesnar's not meant to be a proficient striker... he's not fluid in his strikes and I'm not convinced that he'll ever be very good at it.

5) muy thai - Apart from learning defense, Lesnar needs to mix it up more. Again Lesnar's not going to be an amazing striker ever, but if he pulls someone into the clinch he should be able to bring some serious knees and shit... it wouldn't be a primary focus, but if he would mix it up with leg kicks and shit he could really throw off his opponents and put them in a position for a takedown, or at least make them think twice about hitting him.

6) composure, composure, composure - Lesnar was doing well his last couple of fights... coming in calm, remaining calm, and taking advantage of opportunities when they arose... He came in the same animal that got caught by Frank Mir... wild and crazy just cannot compete against smooth and technical.

[defector]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

Lots of stuff

I would agree with everything you said. With his natural attributes, he doesn't need to be the best in any one area. He just needs to be better in all areas. He needs to get with a good team like American Top Team, or Jackson's camp. Somebody that will push him hard.

As far as getting hit, I don't even know how or if you can teach that. I think it's instinct.
Some guys turtle up, some guys try and clinch, some go for the takedown, some immediately retaliate. Sometimes he appears to panic (or get lost), and just stumbles around getting clubbed.

[Kaneman]

Well you have to wonder how much diversity he really gets in his Deathclutch gym training with his good ol' boy buddies...

[defector]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Well you have to wonder how much diversity he really gets in his Deathclutch gym training with his good ol' boy buddies...

That is my biggest question - is he willing to get out of his comfort zone and train with somebody else for another shot at the title?

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by defector

I would agree with everything you said. With his natural attributes, he doesn't need to be the best in any one area. He just needs to be better in all areas. He needs to get with a good team like American Top Team, or Jackson's camp. Somebody that will push him hard.

As far as getting hit, I don't even know how or if you can teach that. I think it's instinct.
Some guys turtle up, some guys try and clinch, some go for the takedown, some immediately retaliate. Sometimes he appears to panic (or get lost), and just stumbles around getting clubbed.

I think you can train getting hit... 16oz gloves. Sure, it's not 4oz'ers by any stretch of the imagination, but let him get in there and spar with someone with serious boxing skills and let them work him for a while... Once you realize you aren't going to shatter like a piece of glass it's easier to stand in there and react properly.

I'm voting for him to go into Jackson's camp. Greg Jackson is a master at molding fantastic fighters. Lesnar needs to stop training with people who he can out-perform and start getting in there with guys who are better at their individual (or multiple) disciplines.

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Well you have to wonder how much diversity he really gets in his Deathclutch gym training with his good ol' boy buddies...

None, and that's the problem. Every time you see him in his training camp he's tossing around heavyweights that should be fighting at light heavyweight... Hello?!?!?!

Let me introduce you to Team Lesnar, I'd be surprised if you recognized anyone: