speaking of tips: arrested for not paying

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by Tmall

I disagre yet again Kane.

If they were paid a fair wage, and we paid more for our food, then bad service would directly effect the bottom line of the employer. If I don't like the service, I go elsewhere and restaurant owner loses money. There for, they would hire competent staff to do the job as well, they would take more of an interest in the quality of their employee.

For what restaurants would be willing to pay servers there wouldn't be enough quality servers to go around and you wouldn't really have a choice. As I said, imagine Dell customer service being your server and you'll get the idea of who will be left in the restaurant industry. Good servers make far more than restaurants could or would pay. Performance based pay works, especially in the restaurant industry.

Personally, I really enjoy going out to eat and I enjoy getting good service.

What is a fair wage to you? What do you think restaurants could realistically afford to pay their servers?

[Tmall]

You can't compare dell customer service to a waitress. Dell can give you bad service because they already have your money. Any extra they give you is a loss to them. bad customer service may lose them a repeat customer, but they still already have a bunch of your money.


Keep in mind, dell was known to have great service when they came out, and they were a huge name. Now? I don't know anybody who has one. Maybe the free market decided for them that they made a bad decision by deviating from what made them popular to begin with?

[Tmall]

I don't know, nor do I care what if a fair wage to them.

All I know is, I decide where my money goes. Not my server. If I don't want to tip, I don't. I do a solid 99% of the time. But, that is my choice. And it will always be my choice.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by Tmall

You can't compare dell customer service to a waitress. Dell can give you bad service because they already have your money. Any extra they give you is a loss to them. bad customer service may lose them a repeat customer, but they still already have a bunch of your money.


Keep in mind, dell was known to have great service when they came out, and they were a huge name. Now? I don't know anybody who has one. Maybe the free market decided for them that they made a bad decision by deviating from what made them popular to begin with?

A restaurant already has your business once you walk in as few people actually get up and leave a restaurant. I'm not saying that your breed of "fair wage" servers would shit in your food in front of you, I'm saying you will not be getting stellar service at the vast majority of restaurants because there is no motivation to go above and beyond. They will put just enough effort into it to keep you from leaving.

Whereas now they really have to work for that money. Some servers make more than some college grads ever dreamed, and they do it by being good at their profession and busting their ass.

So again, what is a fair wage to you?

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by Tmall

I don't know, nor do I care what if a fair wage to them.

All I know is, I decide where my money goes. Not my server. If I don't want to tip, I don't. I do a solid 99% of the time. But, that is my choice. And it will always be my choice.

I posted before I saw that, my bad.

Well, you really only decide where a certain percentage of your money goes, but that's an entirely different conversation. And if you don't want to tip that's ok, so long as you got shitty service. A tip at a restaurant is only somewhat of a choice. You are in fact fully expected to tip if your service was up to par, and I'm sure you do.

But your, "I don't know, I don't care" argument doesn't quite work out. If you are advocating changing the entire pay system for restaurants in North America because you think there is a better way then it seems you should have some idea of where to go to support your argument. Otherwise its just hot air.

[Tmall]

Really? Do you have a plan for everything you disagree with? Should I start asking what your plan is every time you disagree with something?


What is your taser plan? You disagree with the procedure the entire police force uses, well what's YOUR plan? See how silly that sounds? You don't need a plan to disagree, you just need a contrary opinion.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Really? Do you have a plan for everything you disagree with? Should I start asking what your plan is every time you disagree with something?


What is your taser plan? You disagree with the procedure the entire police force uses, well what's YOUR plan? See how silly that sounds? You don't need a plan to disagree, you just need a contrary opinion.

We're getting way off track here, but I understand where you're coming from. I was just enjoying the tip debate, and in saying I wanted to hear your alternate plan I was making the point that the tip system in place is the best system for the results those that pay for a $50 dinner are looking for.

However, as far as Taser goes, citizens need to hold their police depts accountable and ensure that their local PD's mentality is one of service and respect to its citizens and not us against them whatever we say goes. The taser itself is a wonderful tool that I would like to see every law enforcement official in the country equipped with if they so desire. I believe in some cases the Taser saves lives (not that I care) and furthermore protects the officer who can once again go home to his family because of it.

My problem with the Taser is that it allows bully policemen who only got into the job to dominate those they consider below them complete control without fear of punishment. One could argue that a firearm does the same thing, but in killing someone solely because they did not immediately heed an officer's order brings far more scrutiny than a Taser does. Therefore it allows the officer to get away with being a cocksucker when he's dealing with the general public.

So how do you get people to hold their PD's accountable right? Well that's a far larger issue that seeps into every issue we currently have in this country. It comes down to a populace that is educated about its local and federal government and actually gives a shit. It means thinning out rampant stupidity.

So how do you thin out rampant and expanding stupidity and expansion of pop culture as a guideline for life that is taking over this country and the world? Again, do not fear Nickname, I have a plan. The Govt. is going to put your tax dollars to use for once and enact the Kaneman Selective Breeding Program. It is not a law, and no one is obligated in anyway to participate so there is no infringement on freedoms. The Federal Government will write you a $5,000 check to be spayed or neutered. Those who are serious about having kids and raising a family will not take the money, those who would've just had a kid they don't care about by accident will render themselves sterile and immediately put the $5,000 back into the economy. Eventually the population will consist of a majority of people who care about something other than Jon and Kate and will be more vocal about holding their taxpayer funded services responsible (I.E. Police, City Council, Fed Gov, etc.)

Yes, I have many plans. And yes, I believe if you verbally disagree with something you should be familiar with an alternative you believe will work better, that's the whole point of disagreeing.

[the chi]

Good story tho...merging with other thread...

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by The Chi

Good story tho...merging with other thread...

Linking threads together is a gift. takes true postwhoring talents to do that

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

My problem with the Taser is that it allows bully policemen who only got into the job to dominate those they consider below them complete control without fear of punishment. One could argue that a firearm does the same thing, but in killing someone solely because they did not immediately heed an officer's order brings far more scrutiny than a Taser does. Therefore it allows the officer to get away with being a cocksucker when he's dealing with the general public.
.

Truth, especially given that most police forces do a piss-poor job of screening out bad personalities.

But of course, most people would never bother speaking up about cops, because they are afraid of seeming "unpatriotic" and "un-macho"