Leno recieves '09 GSXR1000

[z06boy]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

If the SV1000 is legal (which I think it would be) I'm all for Yosh fielding one.

I'm sorry the concept of a open class that accepts different styles of bikes is so hard for everyone to accept. It isn't a 600 class anymore, but it is a class the existing 600's fit into. Yes there are a range of displacements based on engine configuration and factory performance level, and yes they will get handicapped based on how well they do. I think it'll provide better racing, and better bikes from the companies that participate for us.

And yes you could regulate them based on power to weight, and that may be what they're doing as they try to make a fair class. But a bike with 100hp and 100#' of torque isn't the same as one with 100hp 55#' of torque engine. That's probably about where the season started at, and the Buells were cleaning up.

Ok this post makes sense.

The hp/tq #'s is what I had the biggest problem with. It's easy to say two bikes have the same hp but if the tq isn't the same as well...it's still apples and oranges and NOT FAIR and that is my biggest gripe about an 1125 cc Buell competing with a 600 cc give or take inline four. The Buell may have equal hp but it sure has more torque and can get rolling quicker. Trying to figure out "how much weight to add" is pretty tough to make things even.

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by z06boy

Ok this post makes sense.

The hp/tq #'s is what I had the biggest problem with. It's easy to say two bikes have the same hp but if the tq isn't the same as well...it's still apples and oranges and NOT FAIR and that is my biggest gripe about an 1125 cc Buell competing with a 600 cc give or take inline four. The Buell may have equal hp but it sure has more torque and can get rolling quicker. Trying to figure out "how much weight to add" is pretty tough to make things even.

Which is why the weight handicap is subject to change based on how the bikes are doing.

[z06boy]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

Which is why the weight handicap is subject to change based on how the bikes are doing.

I guess next year may be better...it just sux to adjust as you go. I say put an anvil on the bigger bikes and do small adjustments back down instead of letting them win like they are doing and then adding small amounts.

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by z06boy

Ok this post makes sense.

The hp/tq #'s is what I had the biggest problem with. It's easy to say two bikes have the same hp but if the tq isn't the same as well...it's still apples and oranges and NOT FAIR and that is my biggest gripe about an 1125 cc Buell competing with a 600 cc give or take inline four. The Buell may have equal hp but it sure has more torque and can get rolling quicker. Trying to figure out "how much weight to add" is pretty tough to make things even.

I guess I want to disagree with myself a bit, and your statement here.

Hp is the amount of work done in a given time. 100 hp of work is 100 hp of work. If it's not fair that a 100/100 engine race with a 100/55 engine, is it fair that an engine that is designed to rev to 16,000 rpm is raced against one designed to rev to 10,000? Everyone knows that HP goes up with rpm as long as you can keep the torque from falling to fast.

Besides, I'd bet the Buells dyno'd with more hp than they did at the beginning of the season, and it showed up in the results, and they got weight added for it.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

I guess I want to disagree with myself a bit, and your statement here.

Hp is the amount of work done in a given time. 100 hp of work is 100 hp of work. If it's not fair that a 100/100 engine race with a 100/55 engine, is it fair that an engine that is designed to rev to 16,000 rpm is raced against one designed to rev to 10,000? Everyone knows that HP goes up with rpm as long as you can keep the torque from falling to fast.

Besides, I'd bet the Buells dyno'd with more hp than they did at the beginning of the season, and it showed up in the results, and they got weight added for it.

Here's the thing, I used to club "race" in the OLD Formula series which was a run what you brung series. So I can agree that that kind of racing is a lot of fun FOR AMATEURS but for a professional series....not so much. A club racer can go out and buy the most successful/powerful bike and race it. A factory team is "stuck" with whatever bikes they produce... I honestly wish I had some money and could get a rider and field the 750 in this class....

[z06boy]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

I guess I want to disagree with myself a bit, and your statement here.

Hp is the amount of work done in a given time. 100 hp of work is 100 hp of work. If it's not fair that a 100/100 engine race with a 100/55 engine, is it fair that an engine that is designed to rev to 16,000 rpm is raced against one designed to rev to 10,000? Everyone knows that HP goes up with rpm as long as you can keep the torque from falling to fast.

Besides, I'd bet the Buells dyno'd with more hp than they did at the beginning of the season, and it showed up in the results, and they got weight added for it.

Ok back to my original stand...it's BS for an 1125 Buell to race against 600's and then for owners to brag IF they actually win...wanna be a big boy...then go race with the litre bikes like Ducati.

100 hp is 100 hp no matter where you acheive it but if you have more torque even though the hp is the same...it's an unfair advantage...again...just go run with like size bikes.

Some of you must have been on your debate team in school and just enjoy it. Argue with someone and then when they might possibly agree with something you say....change positions and argue some more.

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

If the SV1000 is legal (which I think it would be) I'm all for Yosh fielding one.

I'm sorry the concept of a open class that accepts different styles of bikes is so hard for everyone to accept. It isn't a 600 class anymore, but it is a class the existing 600's fit into. Yes there are a range of displacements based on engine configuration and factory performance level, and yes they will get handicapped based on how well they do. I think it'll provide better racing, and better bikes from the companies that participate for us.

And yes you could regulate them based on power to weight, and that may be what they're doing as they try to make a fair class. But a bike with 100hp and 100#' of torque isn't the same as one with 100hp 55#' of torque engine. That's probably about where the season started at, and the Buells were cleaning up.

The problem is that it isn't an open class. If it was, the Japanese manufacturers wouldn't be running 600s. If you want an open, run-what-ya-brung class, then the Buell will get killed by the Japanese and the Italians.

That's not what this is. This is a class where, from what I can see, the Japanese manufacturers have to play by the rules and Buell doesn't.

[Tmall]

Did you guys also think it was bs when Hayden won the AMA championship?

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by z06boy

......

100 hp is 100 hp no matter where you acheive it but if you have more torque even though the hp is the same...it's an unfair advantage...again...just go run with like size bikes.

Some of you must have been on your debate team in school and just enjoy it. Argue with someone and then when they might possibly agree with something you say....change positions and argue some more.

No, but maybe I should have.

So, lets say to make the math easier we have 2 engines one makes 100hp/100tq at 6,000 rpm. The other is 100hp/50tq at 12,000 rpm. Lets also say the tq peak is at 66% the hp peak rpm so 4,000 rpm for the big engine, and 8,000 for the little engine, their power output will be the same. The big engine doesn't have any advantage.

It all boils down to this:
For a given displacement, and the same state of tune, more cylinders will give you more peak hp at the cost of tq, at a higher rpm.

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by Mikey

The problem is that it isn't an open class. If it was, the Japanese manufacturers wouldn't be running 600s. If you want an open, run-what-ya-brung class, then the Buell will get killed by the Japanese and the Italians.

That's not what this is. This is a class where, from what I can see, the Japanese manufacturers have to play by the rules and Buell doesn't.

It's a new class, It was a place the existing 600's could go, plus a bunch of other classes that really needed someplace to go.

And if I'm not mistaken, Buell is Austrian.

Where is Buell not playing by the rules?