Texas law will specifically target sportbikes

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by tommymac

Its stupid decisions that take a lot of teens/adolescents out of the gene pool. I have seen a handful in the ER that had no clue about being a passenger and as an 18 yr old I am sure it was exciting to hop on the back of a sport bike.

I always looked at the passenger as my responsibility, make sure they heve decent gear and def adjust my riding accordingly for the extra weight.

That's good, you absolutely should look at a passenger as your responsibility whether you're in a car or on a motorcycle. However, if you make a mistake you should not be held criminally liable for their death or injury unless you somehow forced them into your vehicle under threat.

I wrecked and totaled a bike with a passenger once, Moira knows, she was there. If anything would've happened to Rogue (my passenger) I would've been devastated. I would've felt responsible for the rest of my life...but I don't think I should've been fined or jailed for it.

[anthonyk]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Bullshit. (You know I mean that with tons of respect, of course) If you don't want to be killed on the back of a motorcycle then don't fucking get on there. Nearly ALL motorcycle wrecks are somehow the fault of the rider. Squeezed the front brake too hard, misread flow of traffic, target fixation, not defensive enough, not offensive enough, aren't Valentino Rossi, etc. etc. There is no line to be drawn here, taking a decreasing radius corner too hot and wiping out is no different than wiping out doing a wheelie.

She singlehandedly made the decision to sit on the back of a very, very fast motorcycle piloted by a man with questionable skills. Would she have flown with a pilot who hadn't been to flight school? She put herself there, she's responsible for her own death.

That does not lessen the tragedy. Death is a very harsh penalty to pay for a stupid decision.

I don't know the circumstances around the crash, but as long as a passenger is on my bike, I have the primary responsibility for their safety. I'm not saying the operator should be prosecuted if anything happens to their passenger, but if the operator is blatantly negligent and stupid, they should pay the price.

Maybe that's what happened here, maybe not. But just dropping all the responsibility on the passenger in all situations is misguided, in my opinion.

[Trip]

You have a responsibility to a passenger. Really depends on the situation if it should be criminal or not. If you purposely throw someone off, that I could see as murder. Someone slipping off the back during a wheelie or similar would be more a job for the civil courts.

Passengers also have a responsibility to make sure they trust the person's ability to operate the vehicle they are about to get on/in.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Bullshit. (You know I mean that with tons of respect, of course) If you don't want to be killed on the back of a motorcycle then don't fucking get on there. Nearly ALL motorcycle wrecks are somehow the fault of the rider. Squeezed the front brake too hard, misread flow of traffic, target fixation, not defensive enough, not offensive enough, aren't Valentino Rossi, etc. etc. There is no line to be drawn here, taking a decreasing radius corner too hot and wiping out is no different than wiping out doing a wheelie.

She singlehandedly made the decision to sit on the back of a very, very fast motorcycle piloted by a man with questionable skills. Would she have flown with a pilot who hadn't been to flight school? She put herself there, she's responsible for her own death.

That does not lessen the tragedy. Death is a very harsh penalty to pay for a stupid decision.

I refuse to believe she didn't carry some fault in this. Can't tell you how many times I've been stuck sitting at a green light because someone thought that would be a good time to fuck with their gloves or ipod. The only law we need is one banning grieving crusader parent fucktards

[azoomm]

She paid for her part in the accident. She paid with her own death when a sign broke her neck. He had four months on a motorcycle. It was a single vehicle accident, excessive speed. From the details of the accident it seems as though it was too hot into a corner with a low-side and tumble.

I never said she was innocent. She made a bad choice. But, and this is a HUGE but... HE had a responsibility to his passenger.

She paid with her life. I am certainly not, no way NO HOW, am I going to be that crass to any grieving parent. It's part of how this bill got as far as it did - people being horrible to this dead girl and grieving family.

There are some of us that are working with them to make this a more positive action to put their daughter's name to. If they want a legacy, we'll help them with educational programs. I don't believe this bill ever had a chance of making the impact another avenue could...

[Trip]

So it was an accident, not a stupid wheelie. WTF would handholds on a sportbike have done if she had them. She was getting tossed no matter if it was a sportbike or a cruiser.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

I'm not saying the operator should be prosecuted if anything happens to their passenger, but if the operator is blatantly negligent and stupid, they should pay the price.

Who's going to decide the definition of "blatantly negligent and stupid." Millions of Americans already think riding a sportbike is blatantly negligent and stupid in the first place....

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by azoomm

She paid for her part in the accident. She paid with her own death when a sign broke her neck. He had four months on a motorcycle. It was a single vehicle accident, excessive speed. From the details of the accident it seems as though it was too hot into a corner with a low-side and tumble.

I never said she was innocent. She made a bad choice. But, and this is a HUGE but... HE had a responsibility to his passenger.

She paid with her life. I am certainly not, no way NO HOW, am I going to be that crass to any grieving parent. It's part of how this bill got as far as it did - people being horrible to this dead girl and grieving family.

There are some of us that are working with them to make this a more positive action to put their daughter's name to. If they want a legacy, we'll help them with educational programs. I don't believe this bill ever had a chance of making the impact another avenue could...

People are going to be horrible and crass to you when you try to take away their rights. I lost someone (little brother) to a violent crash, but I didn't go rallying around trying to take away people's rights afterward. This is a by product of people who can't deal with death and can't handle their emotions. Something good does not come out of it every time someone dies needlessly...in fact, that's why they call it dying needlessly.

This is no different than the Brady Bill or hundreds of others in which a sob story is used to push shitty laws on the American (or Texican in this case) public. Losing a daughter doesn't make a person automatically worthy of my respect so I can understand people being a dick to them when they infringe on people's rights, I don't really give a fuck who you lost. Not me personally, but I can certainly understand why people would act that way toward the parents.

In the end we're all pretty much in agreement here anyway, I just don't like the notion that this girl is not responsible for her own death. But then, we already had this argument about Hulk Hogan's kid I think...

[anthonyk]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Who's going to decide the definition of "blatantly negligent and stupid." Millions of Americans already think riding a sportbike is blatantly negligent and stupid in the first place....

The courts, as always. Like it or not, that's what we've got to decide those things.

If some kid is out joyriding with a girl he just picked up, decides to be stupid and runs from the cops (without his passenger's consent), and she dies in the ensuing chase, is she still 100% responsible?

[azoomm]

The family didn't write this poorly written bill, Representative Phillips did.

And, last time I check no one has the RIGHT to ride or drive anything.