worthy of death penalty?

[Adeptus_Minor]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

This guy? Hell no, think of what he's going to have to face in general prison population for the rest of his life! Death penalty would be getting off easy.

You have to wonder if the guards don't announce "Pedophile walkin'!" when they're bringing them in.

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

Would anyone make child porn if nobody else created the demand for it? (Unfortunately, there probably would still be some.) In my mind this guy is supporting the molestation of children, and that ain't okay. He may as well have done it himself, in my opinion.

Not acting on his thoughts would be staying in his own head, or writing fiction, or something like that. At the moment he involved real kids (in whatever form), he just jumped in with both feet.

Maybe being a new dad makes me extra sensitive to it, but infants are so fucking helpless that I don't have much sympathy for this guy.

so have you watched jack ass? how about a stunt video where they stunt on public streets? how about watched a pirated movie? if so you should be fined just as much as those ACTUALLY doing the crime, as you are supporting it.

so does that mean that I'm credited for everything I've watched, considering I am now accountable for it? in that case I've fucked about 300 pornstars, stunted on countless roads, broken my neck numerous times, eaten some fuck'n nasty shit... literally (damn chain e-mails), stolen a couple cars, assasinated a couple figure heads, shat on windows, buttered floors, had tantrums about leaving britney alone, I've also won the motogp world championship 20 times, died because of an High speed off at Suzkuka (RIP Kato) bailed off at 150+ when my bike burst into flames...

ect...

watch'n a video of someone doing something is not the same as doing it yourself.

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by 2up

JC, I won't flame you, but I also don't agree with your database idea either. Why should they be allowed to indulge themselves? I don't believe that pedophiles are attracted to children in the same manner heteros are attracted to members of the opposite sex and homosexuals to members of the same sex. I won't ever buy that argument.

Ok, fair enough, but what are you basing your aversion to my argument on? There is scientific data that suggests that pedophiles have definable differences in brain structure, found in MRI studies, and that they have "one or more neurological characteristics present at birth that cause or increase the likelihood of being pedophilic" (Wiki). I think that the problem with this topic, is that we are so socially disgusted by pedophiles (understandably, especially if you are a parent) that we are unwilling to even try to figure out why they do what they do. It's much easier to yell "FRY THEM!" but that doesn't solve the problem.

Originally Posted by 2up

There is a school of thought that some people attracted to child porn and some pedophiles are "sex addicts" and they are simply taking their addiction to another level. In other words, once the high of adult sex, then say, S&M and B&D, and then voyeurism and exhibitionism, is not as great as it used to be, they move on to a new and more taboo form of drug to get their high. I'm not saying I believe it, I am saying there are those who do believe it. Either way, IMO, too fucking bad, its not OK.

True, there are a lot of theories. I read one study that said pedophiles are likely to be short, introverted, left handed and have a history of being dropped on thier heads (no, I'm not making that up). At the end of the day though, I don't think sex addicts decide to start chasing after children because they've tried everything else.

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

It's not quite like that. There is a fair amount of data to indicate that paedophiles were, themselves, overwhelmingly victims of sexual assault as children also. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Their first sexual experience is as a child, with an adult. That seems to form their opinions of sex, whether consciously or unconsciously.

It generally doesn't seem to be the old "forbidden fruit" thing with paedophiles. They've thought that such relationships were 'normal' for most of their lives. If the cycle was stopped in as little as one generation, then the problem would almost be solved. There may be others for which it is a genetic predisposition who would restart the cycle, but think of all of those children who would never grow up as damaged goods.

From what I've read, that theory has lost its luster among researchers. As it turns out, the overwhelming majority of pedophiles, were not molested as children. Then again, conflicting studies are nothing new.

JC

[2up]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

It's not quite like that. There is a fair amount of data to indicate that paedophiles were, themselves, overwhelmingly victims of sexual assault as children also. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Their first sexual experience is as a child, with an adult. That seems to form their opinions of sex, whether consciously or unconsciously.

It generally doesn't seem to be the old "forbidden fruit" thing with paedophiles. They've thought that such relationships were 'normal' for most of their lives. If the cycle was stopped in as little as one generation, then the problem would almost be solved. There may be others for which it is a genetic predisposition who would restart the cycle, but think of all of those children who would never grow up as damaged goods.

*EDIT* So all of you who cheer some 14 year old kid who got to do his hot, 30 year old teacher remember that next time.

While I know first hand that molestation can create a distorted view of sex and sexuallity, I also, and more completely believe, that the choice to perpetuate the cycle is just that. And I don't believe that all, or even many, pedophiles view this type of sexual relationship as normal. (The exception being whatever groups there are that DO in fact advertise their beliefs that this is normal and healthy. Rather, for those who don't molest due to the forbidden fruit aspect, (and I've actually done pretty extensive research on sexual addiction which is how I came to understand that a sex addict's behavior can escalate in this manner) I think the lure is more of a control issue. They were controlled in this manner, they didn't have the emotional maturity to deal with it, their emotional growth was stunted by the event(s) so they seek some sort of control themselves.

I unfortunately know too many people who were molested, and not one of them views the behavior as normal. Luckily, as it were, all of the molestation victims I know have chosen either sexual anorexia, promiscuity, or the good old stand by's of drugs/alcohol.

I do completely agree though that the "oh lucky him" bullshit that gets thrown out when the 30 year old good looking teacher molests her student is sickening and dangerous.

[2up]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Ok, fair enough, but what are you basing your aversion to my argument on? There is scientific data that suggests that pedophiles have definable differences in brain structure, found in MRI studies, and that they have "one or more neurological characteristics present at birth that cause or increase the likelihood of being pedophilic" (Wiki). I think that the problem with this topic, is that we are so socially disgusted by pedophiles (understandably, especially if you are a parent) that we are unwilling to even try to figure out why they do what they do. It's much easier to yell "FRY THEM!" but that doesn't solve the problem.

Couldn't a similar argument be made for alcoholics? That they are genetically predisposed to alcoholism, so therefore, they will be alcoholics? Is there not still a choice to be made in this equation? The choice to override what may be, for lack of a better way to put it, a more base instinct to act on an unhealthy desire?

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

True, there are a lot of theories. I read one study that said pedophiles are likely to be short, introverted, left handed and have a history of being dropped on thier heads (no, I'm not making that up). At the end of the day though, I don't think sex addicts decide to start chasing after children because they've tried everything else.

This isn't a theory based on scientific studies. This comes directly from sex addicts whose next drug of choice became sex with children. The ultimate taboo. Not all sex addicts go this route of course. Again, this is not to say all sex addicts are pedophiles or that all pedophiles are sex addicts.

[BobTheBiker]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

I think that the Death Penalty is a very outdated form of punishment that has become prohibitively expensive and no longer effective.

This guy? Hell no, think of what he's going to have to face in general prison population for the rest of his life! Death penalty would be getting off easy.

I disagree to an extent. the death penalty is still very effective, its the manner in which it is used that makes the difference. take the person to be executed into times square, set up a permanent gallows deal of some sort, and have regular public hangings mid day of offenders. make examples of them rather than quietly poison them in a room where nobody sees.


in regards to this sick bastard, certainly hang him.

[FT BSTRD]

Sexual images for some require an ever escalating level of intensity to reach arousal. Missionary no longer does it, but doggie style does. Vaginal no longer does it but anal does. Sexual acts between consenting adults no longer does it, but staged rape scenes do. For many people who view child pornography, it began as viewing regular porn. The problem was that at some point in time it took an odd bent. Maybe it was an 18 year old girl in a school girl outfit who looked 12.

The problem is that at some point in time, the viewer hopes to act out what is seen in real life. I believe you can view the ABC pedophile gotcha show as a prime example. Maybe these guys had acted it out before. Maybe this was their first attempt. Regardless, they are moving from simply viewing the material to acting it out.

The secondary problem is that the demand drives supply. If the viewer needs an ever increasing variety of images in order to be aroused, there must be an increasing supply. This requires an increasing number of acts of abuse to be visited upon children to provide that supply.

There is a profit motive to child porn just like there is with adult porn. The profit is actually higher per image because it is so difficult to come buy. Meth vs. heroin.

In order to fill the number of hard drives he did, this guy would have had to spend an inordinate amount of time and money collecting these images. The demand he is feeding has allowed literally thousands of children to be harmed. These harmed children have the potential to go on to harm thousands of other children and adults. How many rapists were raped as children? How many felons were harmed as children resulting in emotional disburbance and criminal behavior?

If there were an individual who had paid to have someone murdered, we would sentence that person as though they had committed the crime. If someone paid to have someone raped and filmed, they would be sentenced for rape as well. In this case, this guy paid to have a child molested. The sentence for molestation should be equal for the observer of this type of pornography as well as those who actually perform the act themselves.


Unfortunately, that sentence isn't death.

Originally Posted by BobTheBiker

in regards to this sick bastard, certainly hang him.

By his dick.

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by 2up

Couldn't a similar argument be made for alcoholics? That they are genetically predisposed to alcoholism, so therefore, they will be alcoholics? Is there not still a choice to be made in this equation? The choice to override what may be, for lack of a better way to put it, a more base instinct to act on an unhealthy desire?

Yes, there is most definitly a choice to be made, I'm not arguing that at all. The point I was trying to make with the "approved database theory" is that if supplying an outlet to pedophiles who realize that they have an incurable problem would help them control their urges, it might cut down on the number of children abused, which of course, is the ultimate goal. I'm just trying to come up with a way to help them make the right choice. It isn't pretty, but if I thought it would work, I'd give it a try.

JC

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by BobTheBiker

I disagree to an extent. the death penalty is still very effective, its the manner in which it is used that makes the difference. take the person to be executed into times square, set up a permanent gallows deal of some sort, and have regular public hangings mid day of offenders. make examples of them rather than quietly poison them in a room where nobody sees.

We should start a new thread for this, but I'll disagree with you here anyway.

The death penalty has only proven to be an effective deterrent on the people who have suffered it. Saddam Hussein had a nice public hanging, but I don't see any other homicidal dictators throwing in the towel because of it.

JC

[Porkchop]

Originally Posted by 2up

There is a school of thought that some people attracted to child porn and some pedophiles are "sex addicts" and they are simply taking their addiction to another level. In other words, once the high of adult sex, then say, S&M and B&D, and then voyeurism and exhibitionism, is not as great as it used to be, they move on to a new and more taboo form of drug to get their high.

BINGO the basic principles of addiction....

Originally Posted by 2up

While I know first hand that molestation can create a distorted view of sex and sexuallity,

I unfortunately know too many people who were molested, and not one of them views the behavior as normal. Luckily, as it were, all of the molestation victims I know have chosen either sexual anorexia, promiscuity, or the good old stand by's of drugs/alcohol.

2up... would you be in the psychology field? Because your pretty textbook savvy...

But yes, I know 2 girls that were and neither think this type of activity is normal. One is a self proclaimed "sex addict" though, but is not promiscuous about it.