The OTB old testament

[PiZdETS]

Probably the one thing I miss most from the old twf was the wealth of OTB threads. They're all entertaining and educational and they should really be brought to this forum. I'm taking the liberty of copying and pasting some of his most informative ones here.
Hope you don't mind OTB.

Used Bikes: Making A Deal

The warm winds of spring are blowing, and just as sure as God made little green apples, some of you have got the "BUG". You know, the "I gotta have a bike, right now!" BUG. So keep yer money in yer pocket for a couple of minutes, and I'll share with you a couple of hints to hold on to as much of that "green" as possible, and still get the bike you "need", (want, lust after, have an aching hole in your soul for).

I am making a couple of assumptions: You've picked out a used bike, gone over it with a fine toothed comb, by yourself or with a knowledgeable buddy, checked the title, and you have a source of cash, and that this is from a private seller. Used bikes from a dealer and new bikes are a different kettle of fish because you are purchasing the bike from a business, so, for the business, it is strictly a financial transaction. Why is this distinction important? In a moment, you'll see.

Without getting all Zen on you, I'll say that in order to get the best deal, you have to know a little about what it is you are buying, yourself and other people, and that if you take the time to get this knowledge and apply it, you will achieve success in both this transaction and others in life.

Knowing your own motivations and limitations can be used to keep you from "giving away the store". What does that mean? It means that if you go look at every bike with a hyper kind of "I gotta have a bike, RIGHT NOW!" attitiude, you will cue the seller that he has an "easy mark". If you blurt out that "THIS is the bike I want!", you have just given away any bargaining position you may have held.....and that's OK if money isn't important to you.

But if getting and keeping dollars is as tough for you as it is for most of us, read on.

I'm NOT talking about "driving a hard bargain". Far from it. I'm talking about understanding what is really taking place in the process of buying and selling, and then using that understanding and a little self control to make everbody happy.

THE PROCESS

In order for a "sale" to take place, a couple of things have to happen. You need to have someone willing to sell something (in this case a used bike), you need to have a party willing to buy the product, you need to have the correct product (the "right" bike) and you need to agree on a price (and sometimes terms of the sale).

What frequently happens, is that our intrepid buyer (that's you, with money burning a hole in your pocket) find that bike you may be interested in in the classifieds, or Craigslist; listed at a price you think you can afford. You look up the bike, pouring over sexy photos of the bike and rider in full leathers in full lean, watching your buddies go riding with envy, building up a good head of Buyer's Fever...you've convinced your wife, your SO, and/or your parents that you NEED a bike, and they've OK'd it (or at least you've worn them down to the point where they've given up protesting and say "Fine, but don't come to ME when you kill yourself"). So, you rush on out with money in hand "Before someone else can get THAT bike", kick the tires, fondle its smooth lines, drool on the aftermarket pipe and make a halfhearted attempt to knock the guy down a couple hundred; and when he says the price is "firm", you hand over your hard earned cash for the asking price.


Try another way.

First, understand that there are PLENTY of good used bikes out there, ALL THE TIME. So if the one you want gets away, there will be more. So do your homework. Settle on a couple of models AND MODEL YEARS you may be interested in and then check out pricing for those models and years in KBB.com and NADA.com.

Now, start looking for and AT bikes; talking as little as possible, except to ask questions; questions like, "Why are you selling this bike?" ....and then LISTEN to the answer the seller gives. "How soon do you want to sell?"...and then LISTEN for the answer. Frequently, a motormouthed seller will give you all the information you need to make a great deal in answering just those two questions. Why?

Have you ever heard the term "motivated seller"? It's a catchall term for someone that wants to unload something as fast as possible...and that's what you are looking for; a motivated seller. We already know that you are a motivated buyer; you've got the bug so bad that you can barely sleep at night. If you listen carefully, sellers will tip you off to what's going on in their lives that motivated them to list that bike to begin with.

I once looked at a like-new 929rr that a VERY serious and intimidating cop was selling; after asking him the two questions, the dam broke and he poured forth with the fact that he had a new house, new furniture, and his wife just found out they were expecting and he needed the money RIGHT NOW. I asked him how much he "needed" for the bike, and he gave me a number almost a thousand below what he listed it for. I handed him the cash and rode it away. He was happy and so was I.

I looked at another bike that I had tried to see several times, but the seller kept cancelling and we kept missing each other; I nearly gave up. He called me out of the blue after a couple of weeks of this, I popped on over and inspected the bike. It had some mild neglect issues, and I told him so. I then asked him my two questions and then listened. He was going through a divorce, really didn't want to sell, but if he didn't have some cash TODAY, he was going to lose his house. I asked him how much he needed for his bike: he gave me a number almost 1500 below his listing. I gave hime the cash and took the bike. He was happy and so was I.

Notice I didn't make a "counter offer". I didn't have to. Yep, I could have saved another hundred of so, at the cost of good will. But I knew that both deals were well below what I knew they were worth ('cause I had done my homework), so I didn't have to embarrass myself or "beat the other guy up".

Ask questions, pay attention, and keep your mouth shut.

Happy hunting.
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Simple But Effective
I have two tips for new(er) riders to help with getting through the early stages of riding. Both are simple (so simple that people wonder if they really work; trust me, they do) but highly effective.

A. Remember to breath while riding, ESPECIALLY when tense. This is true of any physically challanging endeavor; instinct (flight or fight) has our bodies take in air and hold it during high stressor times; a holdover in our "lizard" brain times of "puffing up" to appear more intimidating to a foe. Great for making us look bigger to a competing organism, but most decreasing radius corners aren't impressed. The only result is a stiffening of our whole body (bad when you need to be able to react quickly) and oxygen deprivation (even worse). When you find yourself tensing up, remember to take large slow breaths; this will keep your blood more oxygenated and have the natural benefit of keeping muscles more relaxed and supple.

B. Kind of related, but more specific: don't lock your elbows or your wrists! Many modern sportbikes force you into the "monkey humping a football" posture, with much of your upper body weight on your wrists and arms. Newer riders have a tendency to lock their wrists and elbows in an effort to take some of the pressure off their back muscles. The end result is that all of the jostling and front suspension effect gets fed right up into your upper body, ecouraging a phenomenon known as "weave".

Little, minor oscillations get refed back into the frame/suspension interface by a tense, frightened rider, amplifying the oscillations and worsening the problem.

You also have less throttle and brake control when the controlling wrists are stiff:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=3

This vid is a classic, but also because it is a classic "fear" reaction; the bike starts doing something the new rider does not expect, he tenses, the bikes starts to buck because of poor/stiff throttle control, the bucking causes his locked arms/wrists to feed more motion into the throttle, which increases the bucking motion and on and on until loss of control.

Tense, fearful, unsure of yourself? BREEEEAAAATHE and cock your elbows, relax your wrists and take up some of the weight with your stomach muscles (what better way to six-pack abs anyway?)

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Clutchless Upshifting
OTB started a discussion about this article on how clutchless upshifting is underrated way of shifting smoother. It made me adopt the practice and it saves tons of time and makes riding a lot more enjoyable.

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The hypothermia thread...
I was out delivering furniture yesterday; temp was around 50-55 and sunny in the early afternoon. Saw a number of bikers out; as the afternoon progressed, the sky clouded up and temperatures plummeted into the lower forties. I pulled up to a traffic light on Rt2 S next to a fellow on a TLR (Blue and White with Arrow cans; anybody here?) and noticed he was shivering almost uncontrollably while waiting for the light. Helmet, no bandanna or balaclava, tight fitting leather Suzuki leather jacket, jeans and high tops, regular gloves, no insulation or gauntlets (skin showing between jacket cuff and glove). Guy took off from the light poorly, wobbly and missed a shift, then disappeared into the distance. Hope he made it home ok.

You would think that anybody riding this time of year would be prepapred for rapid temperature drops; the rapidity of loss of heat when temps cycle down even 10 degree can be astounding. One minute the sky is sunny, warm and inviting, the next minute air temps can drop 10-20 degrees, putting the unprepared rider at risk.

Wikipedia describes Hypothermia as follows:
Normal body temperature in humans is 37(98.6°). Hypothermia can be divided in three stages of severity.
In stage 1, body temperature drops by 1-2°C below normal temperature (1.8-3.6°F). Mild to strong shivering occurs. The victim is unable to perform complex tasks with the hands; the hands become numb. Blood vessels in the outer extremities constrict, lessening heat loss to the outside air. Breathing becomes quick and shallow. Goose bumps form, raising body hair on end in an attempt to create an insulating layer of air around the body (limited use in humans due to lack of sufficient hair, but useful in other species). Often, a person will experience a warm sensation, as if they have recovered, but they are in fact heading into Stage 2. Another test to see if the person is entering stage 2 is if they are unable to touch their thumb with their little finger; this is the first stage of muscles not working.
In stage 2, body temperature drops by 2-4°C (3.6-7.2°F). Shivering becomes more violent. Muscle mis-coordination becomes apparent. Movements are slow and labored, accompanied by a stumbling pace and mild confusion, although the victim may appear alert. Surface blood vessels contract further as the body focuses its remaining resources on keeping the vital organs warm. The victim becomes pale. Lips, ears, fingers and toes may become blue.
In stage 3, body temperature drops below approximately 32°C (90°F). Shivering usually stops. Difficulty speaking, sluggish thinking, and amnesia start to appear; inability to use hands and stumbling are also usually present. Cellular metabolic processes shut down. Below 30°C (86°F) the exposed skin becomes blue and puffy, muscle coordination very poor, walking nearly impossible, and the victim exhibits incoherent/irrational behavior including terminal burrowing or even a stupor. Pulse and respiration rates decrease significantly but fast heart rates (ventricular tachycardia, atrial fibrillation) can occur. Major organs fail. Clinical death occurs. Because of decreased cellular activity in stage 3 hypothermia, the body will actually take longer to undergo brain death . (emphasis is mine)

I have had mild hypothermia a couple of times while riding; it was terrifying, unpleasant and took a long time to recover from (like in the better part of a day). I grew up in Minnesota, and spent one year with no car and just a bike, so I've ridden in just about every type of weather, including snow and sub-zero (though I don't recommend it).

Hypothermia can occur up to 5 times faster when you add in rain or spray. Remember that with riding, we're not just concerned with ambient air temp, we're also concerned with wind chill. Riding a motorcycle (even a fully-faired sport bike) is pretty much like standing outside in a 60 mph wind blast. AT 40 degrees, that would have you suffering frostbite to exposed flesh in about 30 minutes...add rain with no raingear and you're looking at serious problems in a matter of minutes.

For safe cold-season riding, the key elements are gear that can first BLOCK the wind and water, INSULATE the rider from cold ambient air, and BREATHE enough to prevent perspiration wetting (as bad as wetting from rain or spray). A thrity degree day would prolly not be a good one for that mesh gear you bought. A one piece or zip-together two piece leather or heavy ballstic fabric unit is the way to go, with fleece or flannel-lined garments underneith. Tall neck closures, wrist closures, gauntleted gloves (heated is even better) and a neck gaiter or balaclava (I prefer a turtle fur balaclava because it also insulates my head more, where 40% of heat loss occurs.....you ARE wearing a full-coverage helmet, right?). Insulated sport-touring boots need to replace those racey (read thermo-formed, tight fitting) Aplinestars. Too tight means no airspace, which means no insulation, which means cold-feet-in-a-hurry. For those travelling regularly in the 40's and below, a set (vest, gloves and boot liners and/or chaps) of HEATED gear can keep you toasty even when the snow blows (but that's another story), as long as your charging system can handle the load.

Being caught out in the elements doesn't have to mean being dangerous, or even uncomfortable if you have the right gear. I have a heavy rain suit that has been used numerous times as an additional wind-blocking layer when the temps have dropped faster or further than anticipated. A friend of mine once used discarded foam sheets of packing material stuffed in his jacket when he got caught in an early-September cold front when the temps dropped 30 degrees in a matter of minutes. It wasn't pretty but it got him home safe.
Remember that cold temps mean cold tires, hard to see frost and more sand and gravel in the turns.......

If you've even been out riding in the cold and found yourselve shivering violently, making clumsy moves and bad decisions, you've been in the second stage of hypothermia...a potentially life-threatening condition.
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[PiZdETS]

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Beginners and Sport Bikes
Found this a while ago on BeginnerBikes.com (now defunct) and saved it, but misplaced the flash drive....found it on another site....very well put

These are not my words, but another author: very well put.

Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Introduction

Well, another riding season is upon us and as it always happens, we get lots of inquiries from potential new riders on how to get into the sport, what's a good first ride, where to take safety classes and so on. One particular type of inquiry that pops up with almost clockwork frequency is from a small number of new riders who wish to buy 600cc and up sportbikes as their first ride.

For the past year and a half, I, along with lots of other BB forum members, have entertained this question of 600cc sportbikes for a first ride with patience and lots and lots of repetition. It seems this small group of newbies keep coming back with the same arguments and questions over and over again. As a result, I am going to take the time in this column to try and put into words, answers that get repeated over and over on the BB forums.


This column is split into two parts. First, I would like to address the common arguments we see here as to why a 600cc sportbike simply must be a first ride along with rebuttals. Second, I want to cover the rationale behind why the BB community-at-large steers new riders away from these machines.

False Logic

On about a three month interval, a whole slew of questions pop up on the BB forum from potential riders trying to convince the community that a 600cc sportbike is a suitable first ride and then proceed to explain to us why they are the exception. I can almost set my clock to this pattern of behavior since it is almost swarm-like. I guess the newbies figure by swamping the forum with the same questions in lots of places we might trip up and endorse such a machine. Hasn't happened yet but they keep on trying.

For those of you that come to Beginner Bikes trying to convince us to endorse a 600cc sportbike, I offer you the following responses to your arguments.

I can only afford to get one bike so it might as be the one that I want.

I don't want to go through the hassle of buying and selling a used bike to learn on.
These two lines of reasoning pop up as one of the more common arguments. I am going to offer first a piece of wisdom which is stated with great regularity on the forums:

This is your first bike, not your last.

Motorcycle riders are reputed to change bikes, on average, once every two to three years. If this is the case (and it appears to be based on my observations), the bike you learn to ride on will not be in your garage in a few years time anyway whether you buy it new or used. You're going to sell it regardless to get something different, newer, more powerful, more comfortable, etc.

Yes, buying a bike involves effort and a financial outlay. Most of us simply cannot afford to drop thousands of dollars on a whim every time we want to try something new. Getting into riding is a serious commitment in time and money and we want the best value out it as much as possible.

However, if you can afford to buy outright or finance a 600cc or up sportbike that costs $7000 on average, you can probably afford to spend $2000 or so on a used bike to learn on. Most of the beginner sportbikes we recommend here (Ninja 250/500, Buell Blast, GS500) can all be found used for between $1500-$3000.

Done properly, buying and selling that first bike is a fairly painless process. Buying a used bike is no harder than buying new. I would argue it is a bit easier. No different than buying a used car from a private seller. If you've done that at least once, you'll know what to do in buying a used bike.

Selling a beginner bike is even easier. You want to know why? Because beginner bikes are constantly in demand (especially Ninja 250s). These bikes spend their lives migrating from one new rider to the next to act as a teaching vehicle. It is not uncommon for a beginner bike to see four or five different owners before it is wrecked or junked. There are a lot of people out there looking for inexpensive, reliable bikes and all of our beginner recommendations fit into that category.

If you buy a used Ninja 250R for $1500, ride it for a season or two, you can be almost guaranteed that you will be able to resell that bike for $1300 or so when you are done with it provided you take care of it. And on a bike like the Ninja 250R, the average turnaround on such a sale is two to three days. No joke. I had five offers on my Ninja 250R within FOUR HOURS of my ad going up on Cycle Trader. I put the bike on hold the same day and sold it four days later to a fellow who drove 500 miles to pick it up. My bike never made it into the print edition. Believe me, the demand is there.

And look at it this way: For those one or two seasons of riding using the above example, excluding maintenance costs which you have no matter what, you will have paid a net cost of $200 to ride that Ninja. That is extremely cheap for what is basically a bike rental for a year or two. Considering it can cost $300 or more just to rent a 600cc sportbike for a weekend (not including the $1500-$2000 security deposit), that is economic value that you simply cannot argue with.

Vanity Arguments

The beginner bikes you recommend are dated and ugly looking.

I want something that's modern and stylish.

I want a bike that looks good and that I look good on.

I call these the vanity arguments. These are probably the worst reasons you can have for wanting a particular bike.

I will not disagree that aesthetics plays a huge part in the bikes that appeal to us. Motorcycles are the ultimate expression in personal taste in vehicles. Far more than cars. Bikes are more personal and the connection between rider and machine is far more intimate on a bike than a car. On a bike, you are part of the machine, not just a passive passenger.

However, as entry into world of riding and with the temporarily status that most beginner bikes have in our garages, looks should be the least of your concerns. As long as the bike is in good repair and mechanically sound, that is usually enough for most new riders to be happy. Most riders are happy to ride and they will ride anything given the choice between riding or not riding.

If you are looking at bike mainly because of how it looks and/or how you will look it and how others will perceive you on it, take a good, long, honest look as to why you want to ride. There are lots of people out there who buy things strictly because of how it makes them appear in the eyes of others. It's shallow and vain but it is a fact of life. It shouldn't be a factor in choosing that first ride but it is. I won't deny that.

The difference is: a BMW or Mercedes generally won't leaving you hanging on for dear life if you stomp on the accelerator or throw you into the road if you slam on the brakes a little hard. Virtually ever sportbike made in the past 10-15 years will do both of those things given a chance to do so (for reasons that will be explained later in this column).

The population at large may think you're cool and look great on that brand new sportbike and ohh-and-ahh at you. The ohhs can quickly turn to screams of horror should, in your efforts to impress the masses, you wind up dumping your bike and surfing the asphalt. Will you still look cool with thousands of dollars in damage to that once-beautiful sportbike and with the signatures and well-wishes of your friends on the various casts you'll be wearing months afterwards?

You Be The Judge

I'm a big rider so I need a bigger bike to get me around.

I'm a tall rider and all of those beginner bikes just don't fit me the way the sportbike does.

I'll look huge and foolish riding on such a small bike.

My friends will laugh at me for riding something so small.

These arguments are almost as bad as the vanity arguments. The difference being is they simply show a lack of motorcycle knowledge for the most part.

Unless you are over 6'3" tall or are extremely overweight (meaning well over 300lbs), even the smallest 250cc motorcycle will be able to accommodate you without difficultly. To provide an example, the Ninja 250R has a load limit of 348 pounds. That is more than sufficient to accommodate a heavier rider in full gear and still leave plenty of space for cargo in tank, tail and saddle bags. Or enough to allow two-up riding between two average weight individuals.

The idea that bigger riders need bigger bikes is almost laughable. It's like saying small drivers need Honda Civics but bigger drivers only 100 pounds heavier need to drive Hummers to get around. Or Corvettes with plenty of power to pull their ample frames, as the analogy goes. It is only because of the small physical size of bikes compared to their users that this train of thought even exists. It simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny. A look at any motorcycle owner's manual will confirm that for you.

Tall riders suffer more from fit issues than weight issues. On this, they do have a point. I'm a taller rider (6'1"). I do fold up quite comfortably on the Ninja 250 which is considered a small bike. I found it perfect for my frame. Others haven't. Then again, my knees hit the bars on bikes like the Rebel 250 and Buell Blast. Just different ergonomics that didn't fit me.

For taller riders, a much better beginner fit is a dual-sport machine rather than a sport machine. They offer the high seat heights that make them comfortable rides and their power is well within acceptable limits. We have a small but vocal dual-sport community here and they will tell you, quite rightly, that a dual-sport is just as capable on twisty roads as a sportbike. The same properties that give sportbikes their cornering ability is also possessed by dual sports (high center of gravity).

As to peer pressure, I admit to taking more than my fair share of ribbing from my 600cc riding friends. Some of it good natured, some of it not. In the end, this argument falls into the vanity arena. Which is more important: Your safety and comfort on a bike or what your friends think?

The ways to deal with friends giving you a hard time about a smaller ride is very simple. Tell them to ride their rides and you'll ride yours. It's your ride, after all. Most true riders will accept other riders, no matter what they are on. Only posers and losers care that your ride doesn't measure up to their "standards". And if so, do you really want to be riding with them anyway? It's more fun to stand out than to be a member of a flock anyway. And if they don't buy that line of reasoning, try this one: "Well if you don't like my ride, why don't you go buy me something that you will like?". THAT will shut them up REALLY fast. It works too. Unless their name is on the payment book or the title, it shouldn't be their concern.

If your friends can't deal with your decisions, you're probably better off looking for new friends. And if you can't deal with the peer pressure, then you are putting your own safety at risk solely because of what others think. Revisit the vanity arguments above and think about why you want to ride.

Decision Justification Arguments

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?
These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.

The arguments also often surface in what I call the "decision justification arguments". Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and often come to BB to ask about it not to get real advice but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In cruisers, standards, scooters and dual-sports, more often than not these "pre-decisions" are generally good ones. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a 600cc machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don't meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.

Let's take each argument in turn since these are the ones that turn up with regularity.

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don't grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.

But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn't know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don't want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don't start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.

In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider's fledgling skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn't need them to.

Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn't happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It's called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you've been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.

You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren't ready for it. It's never a good situation.

It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers.


In Part One of this article, we covered a lot of the excuses that new riders give for wanting to start on a 600cc sportbike. This second half finishes off our discussion of this reasoning and discusses why high-powered sport machines are not the ideal beginner machine.

part 2 in next post....

[PiZdETS]

beginners and sportbikes part 2

False Logic Completed
Last month, we covered many of the reasons new riders give to justify why they want or should get a 600cc sportbike. Now we finish with the last and most common excuses given.

I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

This is what I call the "I'm responsible and mature" argument. This one is a general excuse and does not apply to sportbikes in particular.

Recent studies have shown that 90% of all drivers feel that they have average to above-driving abilities compared to other drivers on the road. These drivers also said that they think 60% of those on the road are less skilled than they are. It's an interesting perception as it indicates a mentality that everyone else is sub-par, not you. Obviously someone has to be wrong because the percentages just don't add up.

A proper attitude towards driving as well as riding is essential. But these same drivers who see themselves as superior also engage in dangerous driving habits (aggressive weaving, illegal passing, bad merges, following too close, lack of attention to traffic/road conditions, etc). Very few drivers are truly honest with themselves and their ability to handle a vehicle.

The problem is, on a bike, the perception that you are responsible is not enough. On a bike, you must be. You either learn to be or you are going to be in trouble really quick. In talking with other riders I have found that they tend to be much more defensive and thoughtful drivers behind the wheel because riding raises their perception of their surroundings.

Ultimately, responsible and mature does not equate to riding skill. It has nothing to do with it except how you will approach riding in general. You want to know the sign of a responsible rider? Look at their gear. Are they in full safety gear? Watch them ride. If you are seeing them turn their heads to clear their blind spots, making careful and smooth maneuvers, leaving a nice, safe amount space around them and working to maximize your chance of seeing and knowing what they are doing, then you are looking at a responsible rider.

Now do the same exercise and watch the drivers around you. How many turn their heads to check their blind spots, signal lane changes, leaving several car lengths of space in front of them, weave in and out of traffic or dash to the end of a ramp and then attempt to force themselves onto the highway rather than yield like they are supposed to? I'm willing to bet it's not going to be a pretty significant percentage. Now imagine these same individuals on a bike. I'm sure you'll be able to spot more than a few of these types on bikes to (just look for the T-shirts and flip-flops as they blast by you at 100mph on the Interstate on the right).

How you approach the task of driving is how you will approach riding. Attention to the task of riding is the number one way you avoid trouble by not getting into it in the first place. Study your own driving habits. Good habits will definitely keep your chances of getting into trouble but they have little to do with controlling a motorcycle. Any motorcycle. Many lax drivers often become much better drivers as the result of riding a motorcycle. It is far less common for it to go in the other direction.

I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

Of all the excuses and justifications, this one is my personal favorite. It is in the top three most common excuses given and it shows a complete and utter lack of motorcycle knowledge. It is a statement made out of naivety rather than ignorance.

Most of the folks who make this statement own fast cars (Corvette, Mustang, Acura, modified Civic, etc) or think they do. The belief is that if you can drive fast in a car you can handle a bike that can go fast. I would argue unless these folks race cars on weekends, driving a car that can go fast does not make them a experienced high-speed driver. And for those that do understand how to handle a car at high speed, it gives you knowledge of braking and traction but even that knowledge is useless for one simple reason:

Bikes are not cars.

Braking, traction control, acceleration and handling are totally different on a motorcycle. Cars do not lean. Bikes do. When bikes lean, it changes the part of the tire contacting the ground (the contact patch/ring) and changes the stability and dynamics of the bike from moment to moment. The physics of motorcycle control are in a league of their own. Even the ability to race cars will not give you instant godhood on a motorcycle.

Are you aware that a racing motorcycle (any 600cc supersport made today basically) when it is turning is touching the ground with an amount of rubber equal to a couple of postage stamps? The same applies to any street bike at deep lean angles except they don't have the advantage of a smooth surface to hold on to or sticky race tires. Now imagine having to control the power and the amount of traction you are getting in that space.

Like being responsible, the ability to handle a car at high speed has nothing to do with handling a fast motorcycle. You are missing two wheels, a cage and a seatbelt on a bike. Turning at 70mph becomes a whole different world on a motorcycle compared to car. Braking is a different experience too. It is fairly hard to stand a car on its front fender if you stomp on the brakes. It can be done with two fingers, a good amount of speed and a moment of panic on a sportbike. The only cars that have brakes equal or better than that of a sportbike built in the last 10 years is a Formula One race car.

The skills to handle the potent combination of acceleration, instant-on power and brakes are best learned on a smaller machine so when you finally get on that ultimate sportbike, you have an idea of what to do and how to handle the machine. Driving a car won't give you that. Only time in the saddle, the more, the better.

Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?

This is probably the number one reason that pops up. However, it isn't so much a reason as an observation. And it is a true one. Every year, lots of new riders go to their local dealerships or scour their local ads and bring home a brand new or used 600cc sportbike. And many of those riders do successfully manage to get through their learning process on these machines.

The purpose of a first ride more than any other is to get the risk of riding for the first year or two as low as possible. You want your margin of forgiveness in the bike to be as wide as possible. A 600cc sportbike gives you very little of that. Yes, a 600cc down low is a tame if sensitive machine. However, it takes very little twist on the throttle to induce a large jump in rpm's. A brief bump on a pothole with a death grip on the throttle can introduce a 4000rpm jump in the blink of an eye (speaking from personal experience). In an experienced rider's hands, this is alarming but recoverable. A gentle rolloff or a little clutch feathering manages the surge nicely. In the hands of a newbie trying to figure out the best reaction to such a scare, a rapid closeoff or a panic brake is often the result and can get you into trouble very, very quickly.

Yes, a new rider can start on a 600cc sportbike. It is NOT RECOMMENDED! The reason this line of reasoning pops up so often is because everyone feels they are the exception rather than just another new rider. It makes sense. It's hard to think of oneself as just another face in the crowd. As a rider, I know I am just another average rider. Although I have track aspirations, I have no doubt as to where my skill level is and it is definitely not in (or ever was) in the "start on a 600cc exceptional group".

In the end, to deal with this line of reasoning is going to involve the new rider, not the one giving the advice. No one can stop that person from going out and buying a 600cc sportbike as a first ride. And maybe they will succeed and crow about all the bad advice they received on starting small. Great! They were the exception.

What you don't hear about are the non-exceptional people. Very, very few new riders who start on 600s come back to talk about their experiences if they aren't in the "I've had no problems." group. On the forums recently, there have been a couple folks who admitted they got 600cc sportbikes to start on and indicated that it had been a less-than-ideal choice. This type of honesty is refreshing and it is very, very rare. I am grateful these riders stepped up.

Most of the time, we never learn the fate of those riders who start on 600s. Some make it and simply never bother to tell their tales except to friends. Some wind up scaring themselves so badly (by getting out of control or by actually dumping the bike and injuring themselves) that they sell off and never ride again. These types can be found. Just troll the ads for new supersports with one owner and low miles. The worst of this class of riders are the ones who become "born again safety advocates". These riders who scare themselves out of riding occasionally become preachers that tell anyone who will listen that "motorcycles are dangerous and should be banned". What they don't tell those they are preaching to is how they got that way. It's bad enough having to deal with the general public (who are at least honestly unaware of what riding is about) but a lot worse to be sabotaged from within by someone who did it to themselves and got in over their head.

Then there is the last group of these "started on a 600cc sportbike" riders that never tell us their tales. They never do because they can't. Instead, they enjoying peaceful surroundings and occasional visits by bereaved family and friends. They made that one mistake, that one error that compounded into a tragedy of inexperience. They can never tell us what that error was so we can learn from it and maybe also tell us that they should have started on something smaller. They were successful right until the point their skills and luck ran out. This can happen to any of us on any bike. But, in the end, new riders on a powerful sportbike can be a recipe for disaster.

Be honest with yourself. Very honest. Take the advice and wisdom of others more experienced than you and consider what they are saying. They may have a point. But if you opt for that 600cc sportbike, be assured you will still be accepted as a rider and still encouraged to act as safely as possible at all times.

The Final Equation

We've covered the reasons why people justify or want to get a 600cc sportbike. But we have one more thing to answer and it is simple: What makes these bad bikes to start on?

Sportbikes are built as racing machines, pure and simple. They are built in response to guidelines laid down by racing bodies for a particular class and made to win races in that class. Ducati, for example, spends most of their existence building bikes to win races. Since 1950, Ducati was always a racing bike manufacturer first and their products reflected that philosophy. A by-product of winning races is the fact that people see those winning machines and want to ride them (if you're going to ride, you might as well ride the best as it goes). It didn't take the motorcycle manufacturers long to figure out that there was a market demand for these machines and reacted accordingly.

Sportbikes represent a technological arms race. This has really become apparent in the past 5-10 years where new models eclipse last years models with better performance and capability with each passing year. To compare a 1989 Honda CBR600F Hurricane (the original CBR) to a 2007 CBR600RR is pointless. There is no comparison except in the model designation showing a distant family relation. The new CBR is lighter by at least 50 pounds and packs 40 percent more power, handling and braking ability that makes the original CBR look like a ponderous dinosaur. But just because that original CBR dinosaur has been eclipsed doesn't make it any more tamable. If anything, older sportbikes are far more temperamental than the descendants.

Consider the fact that this year a privateer (independent racer) bought a Yamaha YZF-R1 off the showroom floor, took off the lights and mirrors, added a race belly pan, exhaust and tires and placed in the top ten at the AMA Superbike race at Daytona. The bike was two weeks off the floor and basically stock (the modifications with the exception of the pipe are required). Since factory sponsored teams tend to take the top slots, any privateer that can break in the top ten is doing well by anyone's definition.

Because sportbikes (and especially 600s since they compete in the most populous racing class out there) are designed first as racing machines, they are built with handling, acceleration and speed in mind. Not just one quality at the expense of others but all of them in abundance! Centralizing the mass of the bike at the center of gravity (CoG) gives the bike neutral stability. The high riding position and the perching of the rider over the CoG gives the bike the ability to flick over rapidly.

The steering geometry and short wheelbase of these bikes is designed to provide short and rapid directional changes. Combined with the higher CoG and mass centralization, the steering setup is what gives sportbikes their amazing turning ability.

Engine designs vary but have settled on V-twins and inline fours as the preferred choices. The sportbike V-twins are liquid-cooled, high-rpm engines designed to generate massive torque (hence acceleration) and power in the mid-range of their design limits. Witness the success of Nicky Hayden and Miquel Duhamel on the Honda RC51 in AMA Superbike as testament to the massive grunt these engines put out. So potent in fact that the AMA changed the rules for the following season to even the odds between the V-twins and inline fours. The inline four equipped bikes simply couldn't outpower the twins on curvy portions of the race circuit.

The inline four is by far the most common engine layout in sportbikes including all 600cc sport designs (the Ducati 620SS has a V-twin but is air-cooled and the bike is not a racing machine). All of the sportbikes that new riders lust after are equipped with this engine design. High-rpm capability (redlines vary between 11K and 16K rpm), liquid cooled and designed to produce peak power at very high rpms. The inline four delivers smooth and increasing power as the throttle is opened. Power tends to build to the peak point, at which power the engine will tend to surge to peak power and fall off as the peak point is crossed. Although nowhere near as bad as a race-tuned two-stroke (which literally double their horsepower as the engine transitions to peak power), the engine displays its roots as a racing thoroughbred.

A 1mm or 1/16 of an inch twist of the throttle can easily result in a 2000-4000rpm jump. You can be cruising along at a sedate 4000rpm, hit a pothole and suddenly find the bike surging forward with the front end getting light at 7000rpm. Definitely unnerving the first time you experience it.

And then there are the brakes. Braking technology has gotten progressively more potent over the past ten years. Even older sportbikes sport twin disc setups with two or four piston calipers designed to get these bikes down from 150mph to 60mph as quickly as possible. Current generation bikes are unreal. These brakes have grown to six piston calipers with massive discs whose sole job is to slow a 180mph missile down to corner speed in the shortest distance possible. If you ever watch racers, notice that they tend to only use two fingers to brake. They don't need anymore than that. The brakes are almost too powerful. And accidents happen on the track a lot due to bad or late braking.

All of these qualities produce an exquisite riding machine. The problem is, all of these qualities are designed to operate at extremes since it is under extreme conditions that these bikes are intended to operate. For the street, these capabilities are overkill. A hard squeeze of the front brake on the street can easily get a sportbike to lock its front wheel. Same applies to an over-aggressive stomp on the rear brake. No matter which way you slice it, highsides hurt.

The powerful engine can literally get you from 0 to 45mph in the blink of an eye in first gear. Come up one gear and you can be at 70mph with the slightest drop of your wrist. Add in one bump at speed without knowing what the throttle is going to do and suddenly you aren't at 70mph anymore. You're at 90+ mph and the bike is tickling its "sweet spot". At this speed, you better not panic. If you botch the slowdown from this error (either by a rapid rolloff or a shift), you can find yourself in serious trouble.

The handling capabilities of sportbikes actually make them wonderful machines to ride once you are used to thinking where you want to go. This actually gives them great beginner qualities (if on the extreme end). The downside is this perfect handling is slaved to amazing power on tap and the brakes that can back it off just as quickly.

In the final equation, a 600cc sportbike is little more than a racing machine with street parts bolted on. They aren't designed for street use; they are adapted to it. But no compromises are made in that transition. The same R6, GSX-R600, ZX-6RR or CBR600RR you can buy off the showroom floor can be converted in an afternoon, be at the track the next day and wind up winning races. And the sportbikes from 10 years ago were the R6s, Gixxers, Ninjas and CBRs of their day. They possessed the same qualities that their modern descendants do just not with the same maximums. Even today on the street, a 15 year old sportbike is little different than its 2003 cousin. The 2003 might accelerate quicker, stop shorter and lean farther but at the speeds us mortals ride at, there will be little difference.

Sportbike technology has gone an amazing distance in twenty years. Performance and ability has almost doubled in that time. But rider ability has not and a new rider from 20 years ago would still have the same challenges then as a new rider would today on an R6.

Sportbike form evolved to meets its function: to win races. Always has, always will. And riders will lust after these technological marvels for that reason. Can you start out on one? Yes. But you can also pretend to be a GP racer on a smaller sportbike that gives up nothing to its bigger brothers where most of us spend our riding days. It is always more satisfying to smoke a 600cc or 1000cc sportbike in the twisties on a Ninja 250 or GS500 than a bigger bike.

But when you are ready to answer the call of the Supersport, they will be waiting for you and you'll be better off having honed your skills on the smaller sportbike. Supersports are not beginner bikes. But they make great second and third bikes.

The choice is yours.

[PiZdETS]

Buying from a dealership
I've previously posted about my method of buying and selling used bikes from private parties. Now we can discuss purchasing bikes from dealers (new and used).

First, some terms:

A. List.
List price, like in what the Suggested Retail Price is, if you went to the Manufacturers web site and looked up the model you want, they LIST the price.

B. Invoice.
The price the Manufacturer charges the dealership for a particular bike on an Invoice. This MAY or MAY NOT be what the dealer actually pays.

C. Overhead
What it costs the dealer to maintain the dealership and pay everybody, including the gov't. If the dealer doesn’t make enough on each unit to pay overhead, he won’t be around to service your warranty issues……

D. Front End Money
Direct Dealer or Manufacturer discounts that the buyer MAY OR MAY NOT see on the buyers order.

E. Buyers Order
In most states, this is a formal and legally binding document (binding on the dealership, once signed by an authorized manager or representative; usually not just a salesman). The dealership is required to honor the sales conditions stated on the Buyer’s Order; the consumer can get up and walk away anytime UP TO TAKING DELIVERY OF THE DEAL. Once you have driven the bike off the lot….it’s your’s, baby.

F. Back End Money
Manufacturer or other special incentives or discounts, either to the dealership, or to the salesman on the contract. Usually never seen by the consumer. These discounts can be spifs, spins, direct rebates to the dealers, discounts based on volume, rebates of regional advertising money, discounts on flooring money if the manufacturer is carrying flooring contracts. They are almost NEVER negotiable. They are the monies that operate the dealership.

G. Flooring Money
The cost to the dealership to a bank, finance company or manufacturer to "floor" the bikes. Many dealerships may have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in inventory on the "floor" (showroom and warehouse) at any given time; few dealers can afford to pay cash for this inventory, so most dealerships use a bank or other financial institution to loan them the money, like a revolving charge account, with the inventory as collateral.

F. ADDS
Add-ons, ADM (additional dealer markup); these are things like “paperwork fees”, “setup fees”(all major manufacturers rebate a standard amount for dealer prep or setup to the dealer…, charging you for dealer prep is another way to get a few extra bucks out of your pocket),“processing fees” ect. In some states these are not allowed, in some states they are MANDATED, and in others, the statutes are silent. Check your local MVA. In states where these fees are not mandated, all of these adds are negotiable.

G.FREIGHT, TAXES and TAG FEES
These are fixed costs and are not negotiable.

H. Discount
This is the amount of money you NEGOTIATE off the list price of the vehicle…. The more the merrier.

Notice that everything I mentioned here has only to do with money and expenses; that's because in order to get a good experience in buying a new bike (or used bike from a dealer), you need to know where you are, what you are doing and what you can expect. Dealerships are BUSINESSES. Good dealership managers and owners may run them like they were the local bike social hangout, rendezvous spot or biker cafe', but in the end they are businesses, and MUST MAKE MONEY TO REMAIN VIABLE.

Note also, that the salesman you get can make or break your experience or view of that dealership. If you get an a$$wipe of a salesman, (and there are some), ask for somebody else, or leave the dealership and come back when somebody else is working. If you like the guy, stick with him, even if you need to come back several times (like, make an APPOINTMENT with the guy and keep it). Most of these guys work on commission, so if you find a good one, use him, and refer your friends.

A million books have been written on the psychology of selling; go to your local library and check one out if you have interest … my goal here is for the neophyte bike buyer to understand the “mechanics” of purchasing a new bike so that he (or she) may have a better chance of getting a decent deal.

To get the best deal possible, pay attention to OTB’s BIKE BUYING BASICS:

1. Remember…this is a sportbike purchase: not the end of the world if it doesn’t go the way you’d like. Keep your sense of humor and have fun.
2. You will get the best price in the middle of February when the showroom is empty and the salesmen are all staring at the snow blowing by the showroom window, NOT in May when you have to take a number and stand in line to get somebody’s attention.
3. The average salesman will have done this 20 times in the last week and a half…. You get to do this once every three or four years…. Who do you think is better at it?
4. If there are four people behind you waving money at the salesman to buy that one limited edition, Ohlins suspended, Rossi signature one-off factory special, of which each dealership gets only one …. Don’t be a buttwipe and get huffy when the salesman turns down your offer of $1000 under invoice. If it’s that important to get something off of list, pick a slow moving model…..and don’t be such an a$$.
5. Don’t be a wimp… if you don’t ask, you won’t get it, and the worst that will happen is that somebody will say “no”.
6. Don’t be an a$$: nobody gets reamed at dealerships like arrogant ba$tards that treat the salesman like the “bloody hired help”. Be a prick and they’ll pack so many adds into your deal, it’ll take you a week to figure out what you actually paid (see #3). We used to call it the “nuisance tax”.
7. Be nice, no matter what happens. Ever if the dealership treats you lousy…because:
8. Not matter what happens, NOBODY CAN MAKE YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY IF YOU DON’T WANT TO. Getting treated badly?…go somewhere else, pick a different model, manufacturer, buy a good used bike instead of new…….

Negotiating;
I can only tell you what works for me; not everybody will be comfortable with the same approach.

A. Do your homework: find out what the msrp is on the bike(s) you are interested in before going. Write the number(s) down in a little notebook you can take with you.

B. Go to the manufacturer's website before you go to see what special promos they have going on; write them down in your notebook.

C. Go to the dealership website before you go, to see what promos they have going; write them down in your notebook.

D. Set a reasonable price you are willing to pay before you walk out the door...that means sit down and write out the purchase price, taxes tags and any other fees you may have to pay...setup and "paperwork" fees to the dealership ain't it, unless your state mandates them...otherwise, they are just adds and you shouldn't pay them. Note...don't be a "Payment" buyer...looking for an acceptable monthly payment regardless of the price...more than one buyer has gone home with a bike and a great monthly payment, only to discover (sometimes years later) that he'll be making that great payment for 60 or even 72 or 84 months!!!!!!! 3-4 years should be the max you want to pay for that thing....

E. Act like a complete noob at the dealership; don't try to impress the salesman with your deep knowledge. A good salesman knows more about the bike than you ever will know, so let him tell you about it. A bad one will be making stuff up left and right; that's why you need to do your homework. If you keep your mouth shut as much as possible, you will not just learn some things about the bike, you will also learn something useful about the person you are negotiating with.

F. ASK THE SALESMAN what kind of deal you can get...go into his office and sit down and have him WRITE IT OUT on a buyer's order. Most people cannot keep numbers straight in a detailed conversation of price and costs. Have him write them down. Understand that, until numbers are on a signed buyers order, everything is just TALK. That means, if they promise you a helmet and a jacket, or a free 1000 mile service, or WHATEVER...that until it's on the buyer's order, or on a separate coupon or letter...that it doesn't exist...it's vaporware. If the salesman gives you an out-the-door price and/or extra goodies, have him put it on the buyer's order...prices or terms on the back of a business card are not enforceable... a signed buyer's order is.

G. Be relaxed, be friendly....this is a big game, so go have fun with it.

H. Don't give up until you've heard "No" three times...then they really mean it.

I. After you've settled on a price, don't be afraid to ask (nicely) for that helmet or that jacket or the free first service (or all three)....be nice, but tell them you really NEED that whatever to seal the deal...and remember "H" above....

J. To take some of the pressure off, understand that IN MOST STATES (check with your DMV) that UNTIL YOU TAKE PHYSICAL DELIVERY OF THE VEHICLE (i.e. ride it away) that you can walk away from the deal at any time, with no cost to you.

Now, understand that there may be great pressure put on you NOT to walk away, but they can't force you to buy something you don't want, AS LONG AS YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN DELIVERY (then it becomes a used bike; YOUR used bike). So if you get the heeby jeebies about a deal, or find out another dealership has a better deal, you can cancel the deal and get any deposit back (in MOST states, so check first) AS LONG AS YOU HAVEN"T TAKEN DELIVERY. I AM NOT A LAWYER SO FIND OUT ABOUT YOUR STATE'S LAWS BEFORE YOU GET IN A JAM....NOT AFTER.

Remember, doing your research after you've done the deal is a waste of time.

Go have fun.

[PiZdETS]

Is This A Good Deal?
I read all the time on here, "I just bought a Suzikawiyamda Gps 1125 and paid 12,000 rupees for it. Did I get a good deal? My friends say I got ripped off. What's the deal?" or the famous " My friend is selling his 1978 Van Veen OCR 1000 with only 123,000 miles on it for $12,400. Is this a good price?"

There are so many factors that go into bike pricing (new and used) that it is ALMOST impossible to say what constitutes a "GOOD DEAL". So many factors are subjective, and what is a good deal to one might be a crummy deal to someone else.

I used to buy a bike and literally ride the wheels off of it, racking up tens of thousands of miles in a single year. When I started looking at major rebuild money, then and only then would I start looking to replace my mount, so my motivation was to buy a good, reliable bike, preferably new with a factory warranty so I would have no worries for a while. My modus operendi was to shop the two or three dealers of the brand/model i wanted within a hundred mile range, working each of them back and forth to save a few bucks (my first Suzuki 250 was $895 list...new...not a lot of room to negotiate). I might ride up to 100-150 miles to save a hundred bucks. (Gas was $.25 a gallon, too).

Today, I buy and sell bikes as a hobby, and may change bikes more often than some folks change their underwear. So far this year, I've bought and sold 6, and am looking at 2 more. So, my motivation is different. What constitutes a good deal today, FOR ME, is anything I can turn quickly (1 to 2 weeks) and make a reasonable profit ($500-1000) selling the bike a few hundred under "book" value.

By the same token, all those folks this spring that busily threw thousands of dollars at Ducati dealers, just for the privilidge of paying several thousand dollars ABOVE MSRP for a new 1098, were thrilled to death...otherwise they never would have paid that kind of money. Status can be a powerful motivator.

Many people with no or marginal credit pay MSRP or more, because the dealer could get them financed when nobody else could. Did they get a good deal?????? They're riding, aren't they?

I read a post on here recently from someone in New Brunswick who has limited access to dealerships (hundreds of miles between them, and hardly any used bikes on the market); their idea of a good deal is going to be much different from somebody in LA, who has access to 10-15 dealers of the same brand.

Model availability, dealer access (or lack of) perceived exclusivity, status, physical location, access to credit, all play as factors in what constitutes a "good deal". Do your research, shop around as best you can, make the best deal YOU CAN....and then don't look back; keep your eyes on the road, not on the past.

ENJOY YOUR RIDE
--------------------------------------------------------

Dealer Financing
To Dealer Finance, or Not To Dealer Finance; THAT is THE Question.

TERMINOLOGY:

"Business Manager":

This is the F&I guy (finance and insurance)......this is the guy in most dealerships, whether you meet him or not, who approves or gets bank approval for your loan through the dealership. You might only ever deal with the salesman...but this or the GM are the guys who approve every deal. This is also the guy who generates most of the profit on the sales floor. I'll tell you how, later.

"Buy Rate"

This is the percentage rate APR;( Annual Percentage Rate)the bank will approve TO THE DEALERSHIP, FOR YOUR LOAN. It is based on credit worthiness, debt ratio, homeowner vs renter status and the Humbolt Current.

"Contract Rate"

This is the percentage rate (APR) the dealership puts on the contract that you sign. The difference between the Buy Rate and the Contract Rate goes to the dealership.

"Loan Insurance"

This is an insurance policy benefiting the bank...if you lose your job, die, or become disabled during the term of the loan, the loan gets paid off. Just like the bank rate, there is a "Buy" and "Contract" rate to the dealership...the difference goes to the dealership. Are you starting to get the picture?

"Extended Warranty"

New motorcycles come with a manufacturer's warranty; the term of which varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Dealerships offer "extended warranties", carried either through the manufacturer (rare) or through a third party Warranty Company (most common). These extended warranties are simple insurance policies for the operation of your bike: follow the requirements of the warranty (for service and maintanence, and have the documents to PROVE IT) and the warranty company will pay for service problems AS STATED IN YOUR POLICY. THAT MEANS YOU BETTER READ AND UNDERSTAND YOUR POLICY BEFORE YOU SIGN FOR IT. If yuo ythink you are buying a "Nose to Tail" (or Bumper to Bumper) policy, and you don't read it, and you bring the bike in for service and find out that a lot of what you THOUGHT was covered was considered "Normal Wear" items....you are going to be shocked!! READ THE DAMN POLICY BEFORE YOU BUY IT!!!!
Just like evrything else you've read about so far here, there is a "Buy" rate and a "Contract" rate....the difference going to the dealership......sigh.

The point of all this is:

A. You are dealing with a business....and everything that business has to offer COSTS MONEY. Everybody in that business needs to get paid...and you (the buyer) pay them by making purchases. That's the deal.

B. The PRICE of just about everything in that dealership is NEGOTIABLE; from the purchase price of the bike, to the cost of a pair of gloves. REMEMBER that when they quote you a 19.5% APR on that loan.......

C. I can't tell you whether insurance or an extended warranty is a good idea for YOU (just ask jtemple; http://www.twowheelforum.com/showthread.php?t=17964), everybodies' circumstances are different.....just remember that OFTEN you can get it for less, if you ask.

I've heard folks on here rip a dealer for putting somebody out on a high rate...but often, the dealers' relationship with a bank is what gets otherwise poor or marginal buyers loans, who wouldn't normally qualify. Yep, sometimes a dealer will "take advantage" of an ignorant buyer...but who's fault is that...nobody throws the buyer on the floor, drugs him (or her) and makes them sign. If I sign stuff without reading it or understanding what the F##@ I'm signing: well, SHAME ON ME!!!

READ EVERYTHING BEFORE YOU SIGN

[PiZdETS]

Two-Up Riding

Two-Up Considerations

Let me first say that I make a lousy motorcycle passenger; admittedly critical of my own riding, I'm absolutely paranoid about entrusting my welfare to someone else on two wheels. That being said, there are times when you may want or even need (in an emergency situation, breakdown, ect) to put someone in the pillion seat. If you're going to do it, you'll need to know the dynamics of taking on a passenger, as well as how to "train" that person so that you both arrive at your destination safely and unfrazzled.

Understand two things: 1. My comments here are reserved for sport and naked style bikes; the dynamics for heavier touring and cruiser bikes are similar but not exactly the same, but there are enough differences for me to make this disclaimer.

2. The techniques I offer are what have worked for me; others may have different preferences; so be it.

A few months ago, there was a series of photos circulating (I think they were killboy photos) of a young couple negotiating a rather steeply banked tight turn at a considerable angle of bank, the passenger smiling and waving at the camera in her shorts, tennis shoes and tanktop; (at least they were both helmeted). As the series of photos progresses, you can see the front wheel begin to tuck under, (the passenger still waving back at the camera, blissfully unaware of her own impending doom); and then the final series of shots of a jumble of bare arms, legs and the bottom of the bike, sliiiiiding across the pavement.

Nightmare, pure and simple.





Modern day sportbikes are little more than yesterdays racebikes fitted with lights and a horn.They are engineered to within a gnat's patoot to be the most responsive, precise, demanding and light machines EVER SEEN. A host of a suspension adjustements are available in 2-5% increments with just the click of a knob or twirl of a screwdriver, and tiny adjustments can make huge differences in chassis response. Riders practise their knee dragging skills, experimenting with just at what angle should they hang there knee; experimenting to see if they should scooch forward against the tank another half-inch to get the best traction in that downhill left-hander.

Now against this backdrop of precision and performance, how many of you have seen our hero, Lance Squidly, powering down the interstate on the latest techno-marvel sportbike decked out in shorts, wifebeater and sandals; with a 120 lb honey also so appropriately dressed, hanging out over the back, arms behind her on the bikes tail. Hold that picture in your mind.

Let me preface the rest of this with the admonishment that if you have'nt come to terms with the fact that gear, as much of it and as good quality as you can afford is mandatory, then the rest of this is just pi$$in in the wind; and that anybody you invite on the back ALSO NEEDS GEAR. PERIOD. The only exception would be an emergency situation where you are transporting someone stranded.

Chassis dynamics.

If raising or lowering ride hight a half-inch, or increasing or decreasing preload 5-10 lbs can have a measurable effect on handling, IMAGINE what plunking a 120 sack of pototoes on the back of your bike would feel like!.

What happens.

When you add that passenger, a couple of things immediately happen....

A. Due to the limited space on a motorcycle, the location of the passenger is over OR BEHIND the rear axel; this compresses the rear suspension, increasing preload, decreasing both available suspension travel and reducing ground clearance. Grounding hard parts becomes a real concern.

B. Depending on the bike, the relative weight of rider and passenger and their positions on the bike, the front suspension may compress or EXTEND! You have moved a large weight (the passenger) out on or past the centerline of the rear axel, this weight can act as a lever to actually REMOVE weight from the from wheel! This is why the vast majority of sportbike sngle vehicle crashes are usually low side front wheel washouts...decreased traction from an unloaded front tire.

C. Due to the compression of the rear suspension and the unloading or at least lower relative compression of the front, you increase the front steering static rake and trail, slowing steering inputs during acceleration and nuetral throttle.

D. During braking, because of the placement and long "Lever arm" of the passenger (the location of the weight of the passenger relative to static Center of gravity) you will experience more nose dive, and even suspension bottoming of the fork...this REDUCTION of rake and trail during braking causes QUICKENING of the steering, just when you need it least!

E. The additional weight causes an INCREASE in panic braking distances, and a decrease in maximum acceleration, plus an increased tendancy to wheelie due to the rear weight bias.

From a strictly performance perspective, this all appears bad; but the passenger isn't (or shouldn't be) a static load; and can contribute to if not icreasing overall performance, then at least ameliorating some of the negative effects.

Training a passenger is very similar to traing the rider....gear up, take it slow, and explain things along the way. The worst thing you can do to a new passenger is to surprise them. It's not enough to say "put your feet here and hang on". Hang on to what? That vestigal "grab rail" BEHIND the passenger? Your jacket? The tank? What?

Being a passenger on a modern sportbike usually means you are placed behind and anywhere between 2-6 inches HIGHER than the rider....go look at the placement of your own bike's passenger pad. That placement accentuates all the bikes movements relative to the passenger, plus, they have no handlbars to hang on to.

What I Do.

When someone rides with me as a pasenger, we first do a cockpit familiarization, just like I do with a new rider. They need to know what does what, so that they can learn to read and anticipate what the bike is going to do. This decreases surprises, and increases passenger (and rider) comfort. I then SHOW them how to get on the bike, and where to place their feet, then I get on the bike, and have them get on behind me. All of this with the motor OFF SO THEY CAN HEAR EVERYTHING.

We then talk about hand placement (on my hips or around my waist) and the fact they can use their hands on the tank as bracing during braking. We talk about what NOT to do (lean back, lean upright during cornering) and we talk about what I might do that I don't want them to do (hang out a knee or slide a buttcheek to the inside of a turn). I talk about the absolute requirement that they keep their feet on the pegs AT ALL TIMES, EVEN AT A STOP. If I have a bike with a centerstand, I may demonstrate the do's and don'ts so they know what these things feels like.

I also talk about the technique of keeping the head level with the horizon to prevent disorientation and to quell the fear of leaning, and to look through the turn. (If a lot of this sounds like what you learned in MSF rider class, it's because it IS).

We then go for a short familiarization ride, preferably in an empty parking lot, just for me to get a feel for what having a passenger is like, and for them to get a feel for the sounds and motion of the bike. THIS IS A LIKELY TIME YOU MAY DUMP IT IF YOU ARE NOT ABSOLUTELY CAREFUL. The additional high weight at low speeds and stops increases your chances of overbalancing at a stop and putting you both on the ground, so PAY ATTENTION!

Now go do your riding in low traffix areas, gradually working up the pace to a relaxed one.

You're not Freddie Spencer, so keep the pace cool; otherwise you'll risk having your helmet slapped by that frightened passenger, and remember that you have less ground clearance, less performance, and less traction when you might need it, and ride accordingly.

Sportbike riding with a passenger can be a rewarding experience, or it can be terrifying for the rider and the passenger; it just depends on how you approach it. Treat your passenger with respect, and train them right and you can have mucho fun WITHIN THE CONFINES OF REDUCED PERFORMANCE. Just like riders, different passengers have different tolerences and skills for speed and performance. A skilled and willing passenger can change your whole perception of riding two-up, increasing everybodies fun. Dragging someone unskilled and afraid into high-speed situations is not funny, and can be deadly.