wow. local MSF inst. trying to pawn off zx-12r to a new rider

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by ebbs15

I completely agree with POD... someone with SOME training on a bigger bike is a safer rider IMO than someone with 0 training on a smaller bike.

or at least if I were a betting man... that's where I'd put my money.

I do believe the MSF instructor is a hypocrite.

and just my but argue'n a point that you don't believe in isn't stupid... it shows KNOWLEDGE about the subject. easy to argue from YOUR viewpoint... quite another to defend one you don't fully support.

I just don't see how he's a hypocrite...as has been stated,the MSF does not have/teach any guidelines on what bike someone should start on. Maybe this guy is part of the minority that believes that whether or not a noob crashes is more dependent on the rider than on the bike. Just being an instructor doesn't automatically guarantee that he follows the "everyone must start on a 250" rule. I took MSF on a V-Max and no one questioned it.....

[Mr Lefty]

true... but IMO, the MSF stance is to start small... hence why the beginners course is on 250's... and as far as I know, you're not allowed to take the BRC on anything bigger.

they may not outright SAY "MSF says START SMALL" but they practice it.

[Rsv1000R]

My opinion is that Sports bikes are a danger because they will take a new rider far past their ability before the rider realizes it. And when you're over your head you better know what to do without thinking, that's what time on a bike gets you.

I have an analogy, imagine taking a child to the beach, and maybe they can sort of swim. Say you have 2 choices for a beach, one where the water slowly gets deeper, and is maybe 5' deep 100'+ from shore, or one where it's a shallow 2-3' out about 30' then drops off to 100' deep.

This is your child, which beach would you go to?

[shmike]

Originally Posted by ebbs15

true... but IMO, the MSF stance is to start small... hence why the beginners course is on 250's... and as far as I know, you're not allowed to take the BRC on anything bigger.

they may not outright SAY "MSF says START SMALL" but they practice it.

Tigger just said he took the MSF on a V-Max so I guess they don't always adhere to the 250 or else motto.

If you think they use 250's to practice what they don't necessarily preach, you are high.

The bikes they use need to be CHEAP to purchase, upkeep and replace. They also need to be usable by a broad range of riders sizes, able to withstand a drop, able to be picked up from a drop. That is why they use 250's.

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by shmike

Tigger just said he took the MSF on a V-Max so I guess they don't always adhere to the 250 or else motto.

If you think they use 250's to practice what they don't necessarily preach, you are high.

The bikes they use need to be CHEAP to purchase, upkeep and replace. They also need to be usable by a broad range of riders sizes, able to withstand a drop, able to be picked up from a drop. That is why they use 250's.

We can't take the msf on personal bikes. We can take the advanced riders course, which is msf on you own bike, with your own bike...

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Tmall

We can't take the msf on personal bikes. We can take the advanced riders course, which is msf on you own bike, with your own bike...

That is how it is in FL too.

My post was more to the point of why 250's are supplied for the course.

Because it is cheaper to buy and maintain 10 $2500 Rebels than 10 $12,000 Sportsters, not because 250cc is the engine displacement promoted by the MSF.

[pickle.of.doom]

Here, the BRC you ride theirs, the advanced, you bring your own.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Here, the BRC you ride theirs, the advanced, you bring your own.

Thanks.

Informative and helpful.

Gold star.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

My opinion is that Sports bikes are a danger because they will take a new rider far past their ability before the rider realizes it. And when you're over your head you better know what to do without thinking, that's what time on a bike gets you.

I have an analogy, imagine taking a child to the beach, and maybe they can sort of swim. Say you have 2 choices for a beach, one where the water slowly gets deeper, and is maybe 5' deep 100'+ from shore, or one where it's a shallow 2-3' out about 30' then drops off to 100' deep.

This is your child, which beach would you go to?

I'd train the kid to be a better swimmer before I'd take it to any beach. Besides,how tall is the kid? If he's only a couple of feet tall,it doesn't really matter because he can drown in either case.

Look,I hear what YOU are saying,I'm merely pointing out that not everyone believes as you do...some people throw babies in the pool at the Y to teach them to swim. Some people are ok that start on bigger bikes and some people,like my buddy,total SV650s doing 50 in a 35 mph curve....I've said it before,most single vehicle bike accidents I've seen, that weren't stunt, debris, animal, etc, related were at under 80 mph and involved either too much corner speed,lack of brake control or a combination of the two.

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

I just don't see how he's a hypocrite...as has been stated,the MSF does not have/teach any guidelines on what bike someone should start on. Maybe this guy is part of the minority that believes that whether or not a noob crashes is more dependent on the rider than on the bike. Just being an instructor doesn't automatically guarantee that he follows the "everyone must start on a 250" rule. I took MSF on a V-Max and no one questioned it.....

was it the BRC or the ERC?

in AK they wouldn't let you sign up of an ERC with out a BRC card. and they wouldn't let you take the BRC on anything other than what they provided... 250's and 125's

Oregon was the same when my bro went through it.

figured it'd be part of the MSF "laws"