Health Care goes through (News Desk version)

[Trip]

Since this is a pretty huge deal news wise, this can go in news desk, a war room version can be started for political debate if you want it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

WASHINGTON – Summoned to success by President Barack Obama, the Democratic-controlled Congress approved historic legislation Sunday night extending health care to tens of millions of uninsured Americans and cracking down on insurance company abuses, a climactic chapter in the century-long quest for near universal coverage.

Widely viewed as dead two months ago, the Senate-passed bill cleared the House on a 219-212 vote, with Republicans unanimous in opposition.

Congressional officials said they expected Obama to sign the bill as early as Tuesday.

A second measure — making changes in the first — was lined up for passage later in the evening. It would then go to the Senate, where Democratic leaders said they had the votes to pass it.

Crowds of protesters outside the Capitol shouted "just vote no" in a futile attempt to stop the inevitable taking place inside a House packed with lawmakers and ringed with spectators in the galleries above.

Across hours of debate, House Democrats predicted the major bill, costing $940 billion over a decade, would rank with other great social legislation of recent decades.

"We will be joining those who established Social Security, Medicare and now, tonight, health care for all Americans, said Speaker Nancy Pelosi, partner to Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., in the grueling campaign to pass the legislation.

"This is the civil rights act of the 21st century," added Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the top-ranking black member of the House.

Republicans readily agreed the bill would affect everyone in America, but warned repeatedly of the burden imposed by more than $900 billion in tax increases and Medicare cuts combined.

"We have failed to listen to America," said Rep. John Boehner of Ohio, leader of a party that has vowed to carry the fight into the fall's midterm elections for control of Congress.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said the legislation would extend coverage to 32 million Americans who lack it, ban insurers from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and cut deficits by an estimated $138 billion over a decade. If realized, the expansion of coverage would include 95 percent of all eligible individuals under age 65.

Far beyond the political ramifications — a concern the president repeatedly insisted he paid no mind — were the sweeping changes the bill held in store for millions of individuals, the insurance companies that would come under tougher control and the health care providers, many of whom would face higher taxes.

For the first time, most Americans would be required to purchase insurance, and face penalties if they refused. Much of the money in the bill would be devoted to subsidies to help families at incomes of up to $88,000 a year pay their premiums.

The measure would also usher in a significant expansion of Medicaid, the federal-state health care program for the poor. Coverage would be required for incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level, $29,327 a year for a family of four. Childless adults would be covered for the first time, starting in 2014.

The insurance industry, which spent millions on advertising trying to block the bill, would come under new federal regulation. They would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions and from canceling policies when a policyholder becomes ill.

Parents would be able to keep children up to age 26 on their family insurance plans, three years longer than is now the case.

A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion would go into high gear.

The final obstacle to passage was cleared a few hours before the vote, when Obama and Democratic leaders reached a compromise with anti-abortion lawmakers whose rebellion had left the outcome in doubt. The president issued an executive order pledging that no federal funds would be used for elective abortion, satisfying Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and a handful of like-minded lawmakers.

A spokesman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops expressed skepticism that the presidential order would satisfy the church's objections.

For the president, the events capped an 18-day stretch in which he traveled to four states and lobbied more than 60 wavering lawmakers in person or by phone to secure passage of his signature domestic issue. According to some who met with him, he warned that the bill's demise could cripple his still-young presidency.

After more than a year of political combat, Democrats piled superlative upon superlative across several hours of House debate.

Rep. Louise Slaughter of New York read a message President Franklin Roosevelt sent Congress in 1939 urging lawmakers to address the needs of those without health care, and said Democrat Harry Truman and Republican Richard Nixon had also sought to broaden insurance coverage.

Republicans attacked the bill without let-up, warning it would harm the economy while mandating a government takeover of the health care system.

"The American people know you can't reduce health care costs by spending $1 trillion or raising taxes by more than one-half trillion dollars. The American people know that you cannot cut Medicare by over one-half trillion dollars without hurting seniors," said Rep. Dave Camp, R-Mich.

"And, the American people know that you can't create an entirely new government entitlement program without exploding spending and the deficit."

Obama has said often that presidents of both parties have tried without success to achieve national health insurance, beginning with Theodore Roosevelt early in the 20th century.

The 44th president's quest to succeed where others have failed seemed at a dead end two months ago, when Republicans won a special election for a Massachusetts Senate seat, and with it, the votes to prevent a final vote.

But the White House, Pelosi and Reid soon came up with a rescue plan that required the House to approve the Senate-passed measure despite opposition to many of its provisions, then have both houses pass a fix-it measure incorporating numerous changes.

To pay for the changes, the legislation includes more than $400 billion in higher taxes over a decade, roughly half of it from a new Medicare payroll tax on individuals with incomes over $200,000 and couples over $250,000. A new excise tax on high-cost insurance policies was significantly scaled back in deference to complaints from organized labor.

In addition, the bills cut more than $500 billion from planned payments to hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and other providers that treat Medicare patients. An estimated $200 billion would reduce planned subsidies to insurance companies that offer a private alternative to traditional Medicare.

The insurance industry warned that seniors would face sharply higher premiums as a result, and the Congressional Budget Office said many would return to traditional Medicare as a result.

The subsidies are higher than those for seniors on traditional Medicare, a difference that critics complain is wasteful, but insurance industry officials argue goes into expanded benefits.

[BobTheBiker]

fucking hell. so now if I dont have health insurance I get penalized basically? is that what this bill is saying?

[Trip]

Originally Posted by BobTheBiker

fucking hell. so now if I dont have health insurance I get penalized basically? is that what this bill is saying?

if you fall into the right bracket, yes

[derf]

Come back and see me in 10 years, let me know how the gov is handling universal health care.

On a small side note, a buddy of mine is going to tell his 16 employees that when the new laws take affect he thinks he is going to cancel their health insurance because according to initial estimates it looks like it will be cheaper to pay the no health care tax penalty than pay his part in the 'cadillac plan' they have now.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by derf

Come back and see me in 10 years, let me know how the gov is handling universal health care.

On a small side note, a buddy of mine is going to tell his 16 employees that when the new laws take affect he thinks he is going to cancel their health insurance because according to initial estimates it looks like it will be cheaper to pay the no health care tax penalty than pay his part in the 'cadillac plan' they have now.

that's freakin hilarious.

[derf]

Seriously I'm all for fixing the health care system, and yes we should be paying for abortions not breasts implants. But seriously forcing people to get health coverage is a croc of shit. If i choose to wing it, thats on me. Limit malpractice suit claims amounts, limit drug costs and hold insurers accountable.

The one thing that I agree with this bill is that they cant deny you for pre existing conditions or if you are a kid that suddenly gets sick, but I wonder how long until the loopholes are discovered. Seriously 2000 pages and a retarded blind 2 year old can find a loophole to anything.

Now, I am a gov employee, we don't do shit right, not for lack of trying, but at the end of the day it is much easier to fuck shit up while doing my job and tie you up in red tape than it is to actually do my job, no lie it really works.

I also have real doubts about the gov accounting office giving an accurate estimate. They never seem to look at the 2nd and 3rd order of affects, the gov does something and it causes a chain reaction, and all of a sudden you have unintended consequences that nobody ever saw. Case in point, TN has a rock slide on deals gap, closes it down for the good of the public, DGMR, Killboy, US129 and how many others suffer? Nobody ever would think of them, yeh they are probably all right, but I bet they all have some real hard choices to make over the next year, like if they should keep paying their health insurance premium or their morgage.


Hell the gov would probably been better off if they had just set up a bunch of free clinics and regional hospitals and made all new doctors do a 5 years stint working there and they get free tuition. You wanna fix health care thats what you do, make more doctors, and they can only be doctors if they work in a gov hospital for 5 years first.

Like I said, let me know in 10 years how many millions more than the 23 estimated still dont have health insurance. And where is the loophole that illegal immigrants do get health coverage?

[derf]

First loophole has been found for a pre-existing medical condition. You must prove you actually have the condition. Non verifiable as it came from a facebook status.

[goof2]

http://www.chicagobreakingbusiness.c...t-it-100m.html

Caterpillar, who I believe held rallies for Obama when he was a candidate, has stated that this bill will cost the company over $100 million in the first year. I'm guessing that is the first year of full implementation since a lot of the bill doesn't go in to effect for years. Either way, I'll bet that will work out great for Caterpillar and its employees.

We now have health care reform that doesn't reform health care. In reality it is a health insurance bill that does nothing to control the underlying cost issues that politicians have been bleating on about for the last year. It is also "the biggest deficit reduction measure since..." while ignoring the additional costs that will need to be enacted separately (the doc fix being one) because if they were included in this bill they would have made it look too expensive. There will also be continued fighting over "reform" since anything in the bill that doesn't directly concern a budgetary issue will be removed under the Byrd rule. Those measures will need to be placed in their own bill or bills and passed through traditional means. It would really be laughable if it didn't affect so many people.

Unless there are significant changes in conditions in this country I expect to see a shift in the House the midterm elections. The Senate is less likely, but could still be in play. The legislature can only force through so many bills that don't actually do what they claim. This one had the added benefit of being wildly unpopular with the electorate. It is even possible that this bill could be repealed before it has been fully implemented. I guess we will see what happens.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by derf

Come back and see me in 10 years, let me know how the gov is handling universal health care.

On a small side note, a buddy of mine is going to tell his 16 employees that when the new laws take affect he thinks he is going to cancel their health insurance because according to initial estimates it looks like it will be cheaper to pay the no health care tax penalty than pay his part in the 'cadillac plan' they have now.

This brings up a point that Fox news kept touting...BUT...why does he even offer health insurance now? Does the state mandate it? If so, he still has to buy health insurance and from what I understand there is no public option in this bill, so it won't be any cheaper.

[Switch]

Ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu