Learning to Ride (Track vs Street)

[Trip]

So I didn't know where to place this, so we will put it in the beginner thread.

So we know the age old argument. The street is no place to learn how to ride for the track, but really how useful is track riding for the street?

We got a thread brewing in my local board about learning to ride well, this is beyond just learning to ride. This is the next step.

I agree, the street is no place to learn to race, even though I treat it that way in the mountains a lot. I believe race schools and track days are the best bet because you can use raceline.

What about the other way around? Is track days more useful than street riding to learn to ride on the street?

This is where I am against track days. Track days don't prepare you for deer, oncoming vehicles, bad road conditions, gravel, and all the various shit that comes with street riding. There is just no replacing that experience to learn to ride well on the street.

So I think track riding for learning street skills is just as useful as street riding for learning track skills. What do ya'll think?

There we go, a good moto thread, now it's up to you bastards to keep it going.

[the chi]

I think track riding is VERY useful in learning good skills for the street. You dont have to worry about the obstacles like animals, cars or bad roads and can focus on getting to know your machine and what it will or wont do with you on the back, proper braking both on pavement and off, and develop consistency in technique.

I think it is also invaluable in learning to avoid obstacles like fellow riders and "surprises" like folks pulling out in front of you, and unplanned for events like someone crashing. You have to react instantly and think ahead to avoid putting yourself in a position you cant get out of safely (like an unsafe pass) and these are great skills for the street.

[ontwo]

Are we talking about a brand new rider?

[tached1000rr]

Trip you are pretty familiar with the good riding roads of East, TN and Western, NC. So I think you and I have the same frame of reference. Narrow lanes, gravel, traffic, road kill, blind corners etc....From most of my experiences those who are used to the track, will not push it on our type of roads the way we "locals" do. They are used to having much more room. I see it as a product of your environment, when it's what you had your teeth cut on, it seems natural to you. There is a point where one realizes the risk is too high to push it even further and then the track comes into play. Ok I'm rambling but.....

I agree with your thoughts...

[tached1000rr]

Originally Posted by the chi

I think track riding is VERY useful in learning good skills for the street. You dont have to worry about the obstacles like animals, cars or bad roads and can focus on getting to know your machine and what it will or wont do with you on the back, proper braking both on pavement and off, and develop consistency in technique.

I think it is also invaluable in learning to avoid obstacles like fellow riders and "surprises" like folks pulling out in front of you, and unplanned for events like someone crashing. You have to react instantly and think ahead to avoid putting yourself in a position you cant get out of safely (like an unsafe pass) and these are great skills for the street.

Good points, and I'll add the track can help with the "lean angle meter" of a meaning help one become comfortable at greater lean angles.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by the chi

I think track riding is VERY useful in learning good skills for the street. You dont have to worry about the obstacles like animals, cars or bad roads and can focus on getting to know your machine and what it will or wont do with you on the back, proper braking both on pavement and off, and develop consistency in technique.

I think it is also invaluable in learning to avoid obstacles like fellow riders and "surprises" like folks pulling out in front of you, and unplanned for events like someone crashing. You have to react instantly and think ahead to avoid putting yourself in a position you cant get out of safely (like an unsafe pass) and these are great skills for the street.

I am not referring to beginners, you already know the basics. That's just it, you aren't getting those surprises on the track, so you don't know how to react to them.

Originally Posted by ontwo

Are we talking about a brand new rider?

no, this is learning to ride well, not learning to ride.

What I am referring to is someone that is using the street to learn how to race. You can't learn to race well on the street, there is just no replacement for track time to learn to race.

Is the same true for street riding? Can you learn to ride well on the street by using track time? Or are you missing out on a major part of your learning by not getting those surprises?

[the chi]

But there are surprises on the track. Like I mentioned, riders crashing in front of you, others pulling out illegally on the track in front of you, crashes that leave debris, liquid and otherwise on the track...those are surprises along the lines of what you would have to deal with on the street as well. I stand by my statement, track riding can make you a better street rider. Riding track makes you more competent, and more readily able to ride your bike to your best ability which in turn makes you a better ride on the track and street.

(It can also ruin the street riding for you. )

I didnt address street riding for racing, but while you can be a tard on the street and treat it like the track, I dont believe its a decent sub for the track time.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by the chi

But there are surprises on the track. Like I mentioned, riders crashing in front of you, others pulling out illegally on the track in front of you, crashes that leave debris, liquid and otherwise on the track...those are surprises along the lines of what you would have to deal with on the street as well. I stand by my statement, track riding can make you a better street rider. Riding track makes you more competent, and more readily able to ride your bike to your best ability which in turn makes you a better ride on the track and street.

(It can also ruin the street riding for you. )

I didnt address street riding for racing, but while you can be a tard on the street and treat it like the track, I dont believe its a decent sub for the track time.

Surprises are supremely limited and few and far between at the track. That's why you can go 100% all the time.

You are still missing the point of the thread. What I am looking for here is the comparison. There are skills that transfer between the two, no doubt and it's completely obivious. Street riding can make you a better track rider. There is no question my time at the gap has made me decent at the track. Track riding can make you a better street rider cause you can go 100%.

I give up on trying to explain it, maybe someone will get where I am going with this thread.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Trip

Is the same true for street riding? Can you learn to ride well on the street by using track time? Or are you missing out on a major part of your learning by not getting those surprises?

Yes you can but yes you are.

There are still surprises on the track (person in front goes down, blows motor, makes stupid move, etc).

Being comfortable on your bike, knowing not to panic when something is suddenly in your line, knowing that sliding tires don't have to mean a crash, learning to acknowledge an obstacle without fixating on it, being able to brake or change line mid corner are all skill you can learn on the track that will transfer over to the mountains, canyons, etc.*

I agree with tached though that you locals have a leg up. I definitely think it is easier to go from riding aggressively on your local roads to the track than the other way around.

*After thinking about it, most of those skills are learned at the more advanced stages of track riding. Learning them on the street forces you to learn them while still in the early stages of riding.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by shmike

*After thinking about it, most of those skills are learned at the more advanced stages of track riding. Learning them on the street forces you to learn them while still in the early stages of riding.

I agree with this, I had to learn a lot of skills probably a lot sooner than I should have been attempting to learn them just out of necessity.